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Original poster

Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

990 replies

Moomoola · 11/01/2023 08:15

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

OP posts:
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Original poster
Moomoola · 11/04/2023 16:47

You are all so kind and wise, thank you.
In latest news DD actually sent me a text! Asking how it's going. Hurrah ! Sent a few photos and said having fun, did x which made me think of yooo!
Bro said - like you guys, she's an adult, she decided not to come so don't say you miss her, that will put pressure on her.
I'll leave the rope loose now as you suggested. Need to work on me next, and not get sucked into DH stress. Never ending!
Again massive thanks for all your support .

OP posts:
MumOfYoungTransAdult · 10/04/2023 19:02

Sounds as if DS is having a good time with your brother! I hope you're having a good holiday too and a chance to unwind.

I remember from the Sasha and Stella podcasts something about how teenage boys don't want to talk about emotional stuff. Your bro is doing a great job with DS and so are you by having this holiday time together. Fooling around in the sun is where it's at!

Zebracat · 10/04/2023 15:26

Your brother sounds such fun. Hope the cares are slipping away. I know I’ve said it before, but in any tug of war situation, just letting go of the rope is usually for the best.

Original poster
Moomoola · 09/04/2023 23:05

Thank you hag and redbird must say it’s nice to be distanced.
redbird I’m sorry your brother took all the attention. Family dynamics are soo complicated.
thank you both for the postI hope I am paying him attention without being cloying. Brother is getting him chopping stuff in the garden and introducing him to inappropriate people, goodness knows what he makes of it all!

OP posts:
Redbird87 · 08/04/2023 15:50

It sounds like you're having a good time, and I hope your are!

When I was a kid, my much older brother was always being a knob and getting in trouble, taking up all my parents' time, attention, and money, to the point that I lost most of my affection for them. I did my own thing and they did theirs, though I'm sure in retrospect they think I was equally invested in it all.

The result was that I'm a hugely independent person (for better or worse), have a complicated relationship with my family, and feel suspicious when they show interest in me.

DS will remember trips like this, when there was an atomic bomb dropped in the middle of your family but he still had special attention paid to him. Even stuff like knowing his favorite games and taking the time to learn about them will anchor him to the family in a positive way.

HagoftheNorth · 08/04/2023 13:40

😁
Have a lovely time, you so deserve a break!

Original poster
Moomoola · 08/04/2023 09:55

Thanks for getting back to me, hugs, and dodgy souvenirs to all😀

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Original poster
Moomoola · 08/04/2023 09:54

Thank you both. I spoke to DD just before we came, I think X is stopping as much attention as she can, it’s me that contacts DD and if I’m lucky she’ll chat.
bit fed up with that tbf.
also agree, I’m not sure the school is worth bothering about now, though I am appalled at the whole trans thing in schools. Suspect I will fight it.
Thanks I’ll focus on DS he’s lovely. We’ve been for walks and fooling about in the sun, hope he’s having fun!

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Delphinium20 · 08/04/2023 09:15

Op. I'm sorry. I truly am. That support group sounds like a good thing.

HagoftheNorth · 08/04/2023 09:13

Hello Moomoola, I’m glad you got away with ds. I’d wondered how you were doing

Have I got this right, you’ve gone away with ds, and NOW your dd finds time to talk to you? I know this is harsh, but do you think that is in response to you taking your attention away from her for a short time?

I don’t know if this is good advice, but if I were you, I would focus on ds for now. Talk about what he’s doing, what games he’s playing (have a go, because that always gives teenagers a laugh!) watch some of his YouTube stuff with him, and try to find some places you can go together, even if it’s just for a short walk. Don’t ask him about dd - make it all about him & making some nice memories you can share together, I’d also try not to have conversations about dd with your bro while ds is around - it will make him feel like all your focus is still on her.

I’m furious with the school on your behalf. However, she’s left now, so I’m not sure if they are worth your time and attention.

Wait until you get back to have any more communication with dd, and write the letter to her then. For what it’s worth, your list speaks to me - but I’m not sure that’s a good indication that it will mean anything to her. Hopefully someone else can advise. For now, it’s all about you having the best time you can with ds. 💐

Original poster
Moomoola · 08/04/2023 08:53

Thank you. I’m away with DS. I hope he’s not bored! He doesn’t say anything at all, but I guess that’s teens. He’s so painfully shy. He misses his sister, but doesn’t comment on any discussion bro and I have. I wish I knew how he was taking all this. I’m so afraid of losing him, or him being hurt by this that I’m , According to bro, over mothering him.

After several requests, I got a polite note from the school saying DD has told them not to contact us and that DD leaves officially soon anyway. I will take it further after Easter. Im a bit astounded tbh.
I managed to chat to DD who was chatty hurrah!and has got into a college, I think X is applying to same. Imagine they will live with X mum. Im an idiot, I got so confused with what to say and pronouns etc. i mentioned how the trans ideology is to encourage leaving home and mentioned Jeffry marsh who she hadn’t seen. She asked if we’d visited her grans, which we hadn’t done, she is guessing it was a ploy by DH - which I guess it was. Pretty sure X was listening in.
she’s obviously being encouraged to go non contact. I’d treat it as a mad relationship but I am really concerned.

i agree re writing a letter, I hope to see her when we get back, with one.She’s agreed to chat, but it feels like we are getting 1 step forward, 3 back.

im wondering whether to send her links. I thought this was a good one, but don’t know if it wail make things worse. This is on a support group.

‘Much has been said about the pain, confusion, and struggle of being trans.
Here’s what it’s all about in the words and minds of many of their parents:

  • It’s about seeing things one way and hearing the world tell you it’s another.
  • It’s about not knowing who you can trust.
  • It’s about feeling betrayed by many of the professionals you meet.
  • It’s about having family ripped apart by an issue so divisive that you are not free to speak with your closest family members.
  • It’s about not being allowed to ask questions.
  • It’s about navigating something so complex and overwhelming that is historically unprecedented.
  • It’s about being told you don’t love your child.
  • It’s about second guessing all your parenting choices.
  • It’s about being told you can never speak your child’s given name again.
  • It’s about your history being scrutinized.
  • It’s about finding it hard to look at old pictures of your child.
  • It’s about hearing “your son” or “your daughter” and not being able to correct it.
  • It’s about having your history rewritten.
  • It’s about being pressured to “do something”.
  • It’s about being accused of being transphobic.
  • It’s about seeing this as a very hurtful social trend that is destroying your child but you are treated like the crazy one.
  • It’s about feeling as if someone kidnapped your child and switched them out for someone else.
  • It’s about watching your child’s body being damaged by medicalization.
  • It’s about watching your child destroy themselves bit by bit and being powerless to do anything.
  • It’s about being told to go along with it or your child will commit suicide.
  • It’s about knowing that your child has been told you are the enemy and you should be cut out of their life…and they believe it.
  • It’s about being lonely and isolated’
OP posts:
MumOfYoungTransAdult · 28/03/2023 13:04

When dealing with the school - which we had to do when DC was younger and had other issues - DH and I would agree what we we wanted to get across and what outcome we wanted from meetings, and we played to our strengths. Our objective usually wasn't to get a solution right then. At our first few meetings we needed to show we were onside with the school, not minimising DC's behaviour and willing to explore possible disabilities.

Your objective might just be to show that you are engaged sensible parents with real concerns about your DD and not crazy politicised transphobes. And that you want to work with the school to manage DD's situation - which you can only do if you are on the same page and the school have a complete picture not just whatever DD and X are telling the guidance teacher. And if the school are following proper processes.

The guidance teacher shouldn't be talking to DD without first getting proper support from management and safeguarding. At least that's what I think - you could ask the head if s/he agrees?

MumOfYoungTransAdult · 28/03/2023 12:47

My thoughts - try to keep it non-political with the head. As parents you should be kept informed by the school and the guidance teacher might not have been doing things properly. The head flipped it back to the guidance teacher but that's fobbing you off and the guidance teacher could have been overstepping - I mean don't say that, but you can ask why you were not kept informed, ask what should have happened, and what is the process? Polite but firm, ask questions.

You could say you are concerned that DD's relationship might be coercive. The teacher should not be rushing in to intervene like that! Did DH agree to it? You could say that the teacher immediately said he would speak to DD, and ask was that appropriate?

Kind of work on the basis that everyone wants what's best for DD but there can be misunderstandings and confusions.

As for the Mum's secret drinking - where did this story come from? Is this something DD passed on from X before she left, in which case you could possibly say you are worried because DD told you some worrying things about X's Mum and of course you don't know if they are true or not but DD still went to stay with them even after she told you these things although DD seemed to believe they were true.

I would normally let my DH lead in this, he is great at doing the Calm Reasonable Man while I play up the Worried Agitated Mum fretting over her chick, but you may be better at this than your DH!

wednesdaynamesep · 28/03/2023 10:12

Wellitjustgetsworse · 28/03/2023 09:48

I nearly transitioned in my teens I got sucked into this ideology that is way more powerful nowadays with social media. I only chest binded but know two women who have the full surgery and are miserable one is sectioned and regrets it. Its very easy if you are surrounded by other people doing the same when you are a teenager. You feel special and a sense of belonging. Most grow out of it and realise they are gay or bi like myself. If I were you I would play along with it so they don't push back. The person who I know who's now sectioned parents wouldn't call them by their new name and it just sped up the process of them transitioning. Children don't know what they want ten years from now I also have a lot of piecing holes from my emo teen days and I'm thankful I didn't get all the tattoos I wanted.

The amount of people who genuinely have gender dysphoria is so so low but it's through the roof now of cases due to social media and the need to belong. I hope they find their way out of it before they make life changing decisions. I also know people who have had botched surgery and can't have children.

This is so heartbreaking. I'm so glad you found a way through it 💐 .

wednesdaynamesep · 28/03/2023 10:11

Moomoola · 28/03/2023 09:35

mum I’ll speak to the head today. This is crap.
detrans day! Brilliant! It so should be normalised that it’s ok to rethink.
brefugee that’s great! I’ll tell him.
they sure have a lot of trans type days.

The school's participation in this horrifies me. Where's the safeguarding? If DD is in a coercive relationship, not only did the school support it, they actively colluded by cutting you out and helping her abuser to isolate her further. Really, if they believed she was actually being harmed at home, they should have asked authorities to check into it rather than try 'fix it' themselves.

wednesdaynamesep · 28/03/2023 10:06

Delphinium20 · 27/03/2023 22:57

What about just a sweet, simple text like, "Love you. Just wanted to tell you that. No need to reply."

Personally, I would only send a message like this if it is typical of how you used to speak. If it's not, DD will feel you are trying hard and x will describe that as pressure.

For example, I don't text my children like this. My normal is telling them I love them when they're in bed. So in my case, my normal version of a casual loving text would be signing off 'lots of love, Mum'. So, 'The weather is gorgeous today. I'm heading for a walk. Hope you have time to enjoy it. Lots of love Mum'

Something benign, normal, but loving. A glimpse of her old life. An option she can choose rather than a sense you are trying to pull her back to you. Hope this makes sense. It's nuanced.

wednesdaynamesep · 28/03/2023 09:59

@Moomoola X called immediately and said how DHs call had stressed her mum out, but also said we could meet and resolve etc. so grown up.

I think this sounds like a desperate attempt to retain control. Digging claws in. DH talking to either of her parents without her present means she won't know what's said or be able to influence the conversation.

And ... what exactly are you all trying to 'resolve'?

From what you've said here, I see two parents desperately worried about their daughter who suddenly upped and left.

Whatever the 'issue' is that caused this, it is likely a fabricated one based on ideology and x ranting. Something that could all fall apart the moment your DD thinks through ALL the impacts clearly.

I still feel that the energy and tension and conflict are critical to supporting 'x's narrative.

What happens if that all evaporates and your daughter is left with stillness and the rope gone slack? When x tells her how outrageously she's been treated, will that feel like the truth? When x says your parents want to oppress you, will that feel true? As well as giving your DD space, stepping back removes the tools x needs to control your DD. At the moment it feels like a tug of war. Leave them standing in the field and wondering if tug of war is fun when you don't have an opposing team.

I think the main thing you can do is ensure that your DD knows that the path home is unconditional.

Wellitjustgetsworse · 28/03/2023 09:48

I nearly transitioned in my teens I got sucked into this ideology that is way more powerful nowadays with social media. I only chest binded but know two women who have the full surgery and are miserable one is sectioned and regrets it. Its very easy if you are surrounded by other people doing the same when you are a teenager. You feel special and a sense of belonging. Most grow out of it and realise they are gay or bi like myself. If I were you I would play along with it so they don't push back. The person who I know who's now sectioned parents wouldn't call them by their new name and it just sped up the process of them transitioning. Children don't know what they want ten years from now I also have a lot of piecing holes from my emo teen days and I'm thankful I didn't get all the tattoos I wanted.

The amount of people who genuinely have gender dysphoria is so so low but it's through the roof now of cases due to social media and the need to belong. I hope they find their way out of it before they make life changing decisions. I also know people who have had botched surgery and can't have children.

wednesdaynamesep · 28/03/2023 09:48

@Moomoola And wondering what to do next. I’m currently letting it go slack as suggested.

Focus on yourself and find a way to keep your mind occupied so you have a sense of peace. This will sound trite, but during lockdown I taught myself to crochet and started listening to podcasts. My hands and mind are busy, and the relief it gave from worrying about elderly frail parents I couldn't visit was immense. Think of something you've always wanted to do, and do it. Pottery, music lessons, knitting, art ...

wednesdaynamesep · 28/03/2023 09:44

@Moomoola Said since leaving she been to a concert ( I arranged) and had a holiday on her own terms (brothers with no money), got into college( ! Where?).

Hmmm. Sounds to me like she's scratching around for evidence that supports her choices. Maybe it is a whiff of freedom? It could equally be regret and grasping at anything to rationalise how she's ended up where she is. If it's the latter she needs to sit with this quietly and let these thoughts and feelings settle. The road home a clear option without obstacles.

Original poster
Moomoola · 28/03/2023 09:35

mum I’ll speak to the head today. This is crap.
detrans day! Brilliant! It so should be normalised that it’s ok to rethink.
brefugee that’s great! I’ll tell him.
they sure have a lot of trans type days.

OP posts:
Brefugee · 28/03/2023 09:21

pity it's just gone but DH can mention at work that 21st March is odd sock day as Downs Syndrome Awareness day and are they going to mark that? International Women's day 8th March, International Men's Day 19th November and so on and so forth. There are lots of inclusivity days and they really need to get the ones in for Autism, Menopause, Alzheimer's etc etc as well, or they're not being inclusive, they're being exclusive. He should appear a little worried about that, that they don't want to be seen as exclusive.

MumOfYoungTransAdult · 28/03/2023 09:04

Can DH be more forceful and insist on speaking to the head? This is not about politics and awards, this is an issue about the school not communicating with you. Did DD leave school without you being notified? She is under 18, I don't know the law, do the school still have a responsibility? Why is the guidance teacher calling DD if she is no longer at the school?

there will be stalls in the canteen, jolly posters everywhere and a very clever young lady who is now hob bobbing with the bosses as the trans expert.

Detrans awareness day is an annual event now, give DH a poster to put up Wink

Detrans Awareness Day 2023 - Genspect

Share with: Genspect are delighted to announce that we are hosting a webinar for Detransition Awareness Day, this year on 12th March, 6pm GMT.  We’re platforming detransitioners from across the globe, sharing their own stories and experiences with gend...

https://genspect.org/detrans-awareness-day-2023

Original poster
Moomoola · 28/03/2023 08:45

brefugee that’s lovely. I used to do that with my mum.
I’ll text her later - if only I knew when she’d be alone!

And I will raise it with the school to help other families. This is SO crap. They have no idea of how nasty this stuff is.

OP posts:
Original poster
Moomoola · 28/03/2023 08:41

Aww, thanks, just cross posted what a nice suprise!
mum I’ve suggested pub to DH, he thinks I need to call the mum first. 🙄

DH asked the head to call him and he got the guidance teacher instead. DH asked if all this had helped them get their silver charter. And he’s concerned she’s in a coercive situation. The teacher said he’d call DD - did we want him to mention coercion?!
recording this would have been a good idea.
Ive left a message and an email asking the teacher to feedback what he said to DD, no reply. Again I’m not sure I want to cause a fuss - she’s now left school. I’m appalled and should fight it for other families, but.

In other news DH company has set up a glossy newsletter all about inclusivity. So far it’s how to talk to a trans person, a list of all the awareness day/ months / ( there’s a lot) including stonewall riot day. there will be stalls in the canteen, jolly posters everywhere and a very clever young lady who is now hob bobbing with the bosses as the trans expert.
doesn’t mention any other awareness days. Odd that.
grrr!

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