Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

990 replies

Moomoola · 11/01/2023 08:15

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
38
TheClogLady · 22/04/2023 16:11

paulinesmithson · 22/04/2023 14:42

Look what has happened as a result of you not being open to new ideas. I hope your child returns, but she will only do so once you provide her reassurance you will be accepting of transgender people. It's not that hard to be open to it and it would've saved a lot of stress on both her and your parts.

I am not saying it is your 'fault' she ran away, and I'm incredibly sorry that that has happened to you as it must be distressing. But you have the ability to rectify it by offering to listen to her views without judgement

Feel free to start a new thread with whatever ‘advice’ you have for generic parents in this position, however ‘look what you’ve gone and done, this is your fault’ is both inappropriate and pointless commentary on a personal support thread.

NotHavingIt · 22/04/2023 15:07

paulinesmithson · 22/04/2023 14:59

@NotHavingIt
Ignoring DD's feelings won't make them disappear. But things such as using the correct name, pronouns, etc are not biologically impactful on the body so I don't see any harm with that even if you have doubts about allowing any procedures. If the child has a safe space to discuss feelings then they can be approached together instead of with hostility

It sounds to me as if this mother is handling the situation in a way which she feels she has to - and telling her thhat things are effectively her fault is not helpful.

There is no such thing as a trans child. What there are are children who are struggling with emotional and mental health issues. If you have read Hannah Barnes book about what went on at the Tavistock clinic you will know it is not a neutral act for a trusted adult to start affirming a trans identity and using pronouns - as this often traps the child into the assumed identity and makes it more difficult to desist.

paulinesmithson · 22/04/2023 14:59

@NotHavingIt
Ignoring DD's feelings won't make them disappear. But things such as using the correct name, pronouns, etc are not biologically impactful on the body so I don't see any harm with that even if you have doubts about allowing any procedures. If the child has a safe space to discuss feelings then they can be approached together instead of with hostility

NotHavingIt · 22/04/2023 14:56

paulinesmithson · 22/04/2023 14:42

Look what has happened as a result of you not being open to new ideas. I hope your child returns, but she will only do so once you provide her reassurance you will be accepting of transgender people. It's not that hard to be open to it and it would've saved a lot of stress on both her and your parts.

I am not saying it is your 'fault' she ran away, and I'm incredibly sorry that that has happened to you as it must be distressing. But you have the ability to rectify it by offering to listen to her views without judgement

When you say " open to a new idea" do you mean being open to believe that it is possible to change sex, and that cross sex hormones and possibly a mastectomy are no big deal? Or that women's rights and protections must be scafriced for that belief?

paulinesmithson · 22/04/2023 14:42

Look what has happened as a result of you not being open to new ideas. I hope your child returns, but she will only do so once you provide her reassurance you will be accepting of transgender people. It's not that hard to be open to it and it would've saved a lot of stress on both her and your parts.

I am not saying it is your 'fault' she ran away, and I'm incredibly sorry that that has happened to you as it must be distressing. But you have the ability to rectify it by offering to listen to her views without judgement

Faffertea · 22/04/2023 12:11

@BezMills
We’re going through assessment with 10 year old ds so I’m reading and learning a lot!

BezMills · 22/04/2023 11:14

Some food for thought there @Faffertea

Let's just say my household is pretty ND, us two parents to start with, and I'm seeing it in our DD too. We all struggle with control & anxiety.

Faffertea · 22/04/2023 10:02

I’ve just read this whole thread over the last 24 hours and I think you’re doing incredibly @Moomoola. Calm and steady with dd even though you feel like screaming.

I think as others have said it’s really important to stay calm and rational. To make sure that whenever dd needs to (and at some point she will) there is a road out of this and back to her family. To do that though, she needs you to continue to be calm and non judgemental.

X has created a narrative where you are the evil transphobe parents and to keep her hold on dd she needs you to play that role. Partly because she has her own narrative (which she has probably been at least partly groomed into believing) that everyone hates trans people, they have to fight for everything because they are so despised. But also because it reinforces the “us and them” narrative she is feeding dd. No one understands dd like she does, only she loves dd really and only their love and relationship will get them through, it’s ‘us against the world’. All very theatrical for someone who loves the drama and needs to control and isolate dd. If you don’t play that part, she can’t use it to feed her story.

Sadly, I think that means your DH is wrong and his suggestions and behaviour will only push her away rather than pull her towards you.

I think you mentioned that dd is autistic/adhd and I’ve been thinking about how this might be contributing to the situation. Ignore me if I got that wrong but many autistic people and some people with ADHD esp the over focused subtype have an overwhelming need to control their environment. It’s their way of trying to navigate a world set up for NT people, that doesn’t make sense to them in the same way or is not experienced by them in the same way. I wonder if this could explain some of DD’s behaviour of arranging to speak/meet but then cancelling. She wants to do it but that means losing control and that makes her feel anxious so she avoids that feeling uncomfortable and regains control by cancelling. It makes me think that perhaps her talk about boundaries is her trying to explain this too? Does she have any PDA traits? It’s important to know then that this is not her being manipulative or playing games or trying to control you. It is her way of protecting herself from the stress and anxiety of interacting in the world.

Reading your posts I’ve also wondered about your DH and whether he is ND? Again, it would explain his ranting, lack of understanding/empathy for your approach, his demands that you do things his way and failure to see that firstly his approach might be wrong and secondly that he can’t expect you to essentially be his servant or his deputy, carrying out his instructions without question or ideas of your own. Has he always tried to parent dd in this way? Again, some autistic people (and children in particular) find what might be called ‘my way or the highway’ approaches difficult because it can conflict strongly with their own internal need to do things a certain way to help them function in an NT world. In some children it can lead to outbursts, meltdowns and outright defiance but in others it can present as withdrawal, shutting off relationships and shutting down. Perhaps if that is the case and your approach has been different that is why she engages with you but not with him.

Sorry that is a long post but just some thoughts on what you’ve said. I hope you find some time over the weekend to do something for you, even if just to sit with a coffee or have a bath.

wednesdaynamesep · 21/04/2023 22:45

I would keep it light and normal. How do you normally text her? If you do emojis, do that. If you often tell her you love her, say so.

But don't do anything that's unlike you, otherwise it makes your messages feel loaded with unspoken intent. That's not really dropping the rope. There's still something in there to mull over, analyse, interpret get angry about. Remember: withdraw the drama so her relationship with x is left unsupported by fighting the good fight for the cause. Leave it naked and exposed as a hollow shell. Don't play the game.

Warm happy light texts are enough for her to know you're still there, and you haven't rejected her.

In the meanwhile - really important - keep living your best life. Occasionally mention something lightly and in passing: 'Oh, forgot to tell you I saw [...] a couple of days ago. They say hi'. That sort of thing. Really light. You're keeping her posted, but you're not using your best life as a tool to manipulate her.

My guess (only a guess) is that your time away with DS probably made her feel really wistful and possibly a bit left behind and alone. I think you want to give a faint impression you've sort of moved on and accepted things but still love her. It's sad, but she might feel lonely stuck with x. But it's up to her 'accept things' as well, which might be to live in anger with x, or come back to you. You are effectively calling her bluff.

Your DH is a problem though. His anger and inflexibility will just fuel the drama dramatically and take you straight back into the war zone. I feel for him though: I'd hate to use DD's new name. I think I'd stick with my DD's childhood nickname instead, and hope that is enough.

You are doing brilliantly x

beastlyslumber · 21/04/2023 20:35

I think it's a bit dismissive. I think I would give a bit more support than that. It doesn't have to be offers of help if you don't feel up to that, but just to say, I love you and I'm here for you seems important.

Highdaysandholidays1 · 21/04/2023 20:22

I think sending a 'hugs' or a 'heart' emoji is the way to go. Just that the person is heard and loved.

Delphinium20 · 21/04/2023 19:00

Moomoola I think it's AWESOME she reached out to you to say how she feels at a party. That's huge. Teen usually want to prove how independent they are. She misses you. She also sounds like she needed some advice or comfort. Maybe say, "those feelings gets easier to handle when you get older but it's normal to experience that once in a while. Maybe find someone who also looks uncomfortable you can go up and talk to?"

MumOfYoungTransAdult · 21/04/2023 17:15

My thought about DD's birthday - and I'm sure wiser people than me will say if this is a bad idea! - is to offer her a posh night out (dinner, show, gig?) with a guest that she chooses (who could be X, but don't suggest X, just "anyone you like") as a birthday treat?

Then you don't have to spend time with X, plus you are showing respect for DD as an adult who chooses her own company, and creating an 18th birthday event for her.

If she ums and and ahs then ask her if there's anything else she would like to do and let her have a think and get back to you. Offer made but no pressure.

btw I don't think you can be manipulated by DD. Sure, what DD does and says affects your feelings, but she 100% does not control your actions. You don't just dance to her tune and you don't just react against her either. You reflect and you take advice from different places and then you decide what to for the best.

ArabellaScott · 21/04/2023 16:53

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 21/04/2023 16:13

I dunno but - how about just sending a heart emoji? It's like, she has "acknowledged" your message so you just "acknowledge" hers.

A lot of human communication is really just two people signalling"the channel is open" at both ends. Smile The words aren't the main thing.

I think that's a good idea.

Mumsnet committee says send a heart emoji.

TheClogLady · 21/04/2023 16:14

She’s trying to minimise her last message, perhaps to self soothe or perhaps to deflect from having shown you a vulnerability. How about something like…

‘Is that ‘ah well’ an ‘ah well’ of regret or of relief? Either is valid!’

(Teens love declaring everything ‘valid’ in current days!)

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 21/04/2023 16:13

I dunno but - how about just sending a heart emoji? It's like, she has "acknowledged" your message so you just "acknowledge" hers.

A lot of human communication is really just two people signalling"the channel is open" at both ends. Smile The words aren't the main thing.

beastlyslumber · 21/04/2023 16:12

Just text back something like, hope it feels easier soon, talk to me if it helps, love you lots.

Don't ask questions or lead her through it, just let her know you're there for her and love her, then leave it up to her if she wants to say more.

Moomoola · 21/04/2023 16:04

I’d love to actively listen! I’ve sent her this.’.I’m sorry that does sound hard. And a big deal.’
she’s just texted back!with ‘yeh but ah well ‘
now IM like a 17 yr old, what does that mean? Should I respond?! Will she call again!
sitting on hands! Or delete button at least!
Dear clog DH says he won’t call her anything. But the intitlas of old and new name sound good. I used to shorten her new name so at least it was unisex!

OP posts:
Highdaysandholidays1 · 21/04/2023 16:03

Never would I let my husband tell me when and how to text my own child. He can deal with her his way- so far she has left home and wants no communication with him. Preserve your relationship, answer those texts, he's not helping at all. I would also find someone lecturing me morning and evening unacceptable as a way to live but that's your choice.

Also, remember just because she's stuffed up (in your eyes) doesn't mean she isn't deserving of sympathy and a mum's listening ear- it is hard to be a teen whatever is going on and going places and feeling out of place, or lonely or like things are hard is normal, whatever the reason. It's great she's got you.

Lilybetsey · 21/04/2023 16:00

Lurker here, full of admiration for you loving thoughtful responses

Just wanted to say I did family therapy with my three sons . But .. we had 8 sessions, I went to them all , they boys attended 3 sessions, 3 sessions (different ones) and 1 session respectively ticket. Still super useful to me ...
good luck Flowers

ArabellaScott · 21/04/2023 15:56

Active listening is what should kick in now. Silence is fine! Signal that you care, that you are available, that you are listening and won't judge.

Sit on your hands if necessary.

TheClogLady · 21/04/2023 15:49

Beastly is right - she’s reaching out to mum and showing vulnerability - don’t push her away now!

’Feeling alone in a crowd IS hard - we anticipate the difficulties in big emotions things like anger, envy, disgust & terror but the quieter ones, disappointment, worry, sadness, loneliness can sneak up and take us by surprise. Hope you feel a little brighter today xx’

As for the name, would DH compromise with an initial? First letter of the new name? First letter of old name? Both combined if it sounds good together?

Moomoola · 21/04/2023 15:32

Thank you wise ones!
yes mum good idea. The therapist actually said if I can’t get DH to come, to go on my own. He’s just so eaten up by all this. Texting her now 👍

OP posts:
MumOfYoungTransAdult · 21/04/2023 15:27

Dropping the rope seems to be working! So don't reject her but don't jump in too hard with a big fuss either. Like @beastlyslumber says, just something along the lines of "I'm sorry, that sounds hard" might be about enough?

Are the very different approaches between you and DH, and the way DH vents at you so much about DD, things that you could discuss with the family therapist? In a session for just the two of you and not with DD or DS, obviously.

You are still doing such an amazing job. Respect!

Swipe left for the next trending thread