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Original poster

Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

990 replies

Moomoola · 11/01/2023 08:15

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

OP posts:
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Original poster
Moomoola · 02/05/2023 09:42

Thank you very much all.
thank you facelike agree with jellycats what a wonderful, helpful post. I need to pin it to the fridge. I appreciate you all taking the time and consideration to write so empathetic ally and wisely. We are doing our best to get on with life as suggested. ( although I’m procrastinating on cleaning atm!)
faffertea he nearly suddenly died, and that naturally is followed by mental struggles. He is much recovered, thank goodness, but this has knocked him for 6. So, yes, I do suspect depression, poor chap.
Kiss puppies!?! No puppies ( or bluebells) were harmed in the making of this post. Though there is an old football that’s now up a tree😂
good news! DH texted a friendly hello to DD and got a reply. Just a hello back, but it’s really helped us both. It’s that ridiculous raising and dashing of hopes.
we are trying to play it cool and get on with having fun. We ended up staying home, but buying huge amounts of treats. Yum!
DH and I saw the family therapist. The main reason for us going was that DD was seeing someone from the same organisation, obviously we are not privy to what is said, but our reasoning is that this is a family! A system! Why is no one including us?! Our therapist finally said they will try to get DD to come to a session, without us, initially, but it’s DD led. They don’t seem to get that DD will probably be primed by X and then tell whatever is said to X and X will twist it. I am tempted to cancel, I am concerned they will make it worse like the UTTER MORON that passes for a guidance teacher.They also seems to have totally forgotten DD mentioned top surgery in her initial letter. Yes! We told you that! Why are you surprised! And yes! We do think X is manipulative! And yes, of course DD isn’t totally innocent, duh. And yes, we will have mucked up too.
It. Is. Not.A.Healthy.Relationship. Grrr.
I’m tempted to send DD a few select links, but again, our communication is so fragile, the slightest question and she will vanish again as she protects her mental health.
seems all I can do is be cool, while she is spoon fed crap. SO FRUSTRATING. Where’s those puppies, I mean football. Where’s the WRN membership form.

OP posts:
Jellycats4life · 30/04/2023 12:18

That’s an incredible post @FaceLikeCattle. So insightful! Especially these words : The power of punishing you is lost when you don't appear to be upset about it.

It must be so easy to feel like X, her mum and your DD are “winning” @Moomoola, but read that post when you’re feeling defeated and remember that there’s no way that’s a happy household. Not so that you can feel smug and superior. Just accepting facts. They have made their bed and now they have to lie in it. The most meaningful thing you can do is carry on living your life, carving out a path of happiness and contentment for yourself and waiting to see what your DD’s next move is.

Faffertea · 29/04/2023 08:22

Surely you were going to KISS some puppies @Moomoola not kick them? 😂

You mentioned DH being ill before. Was that a mental health problem? Just wondering if his tiredness and going to bed early could be a sign of depression?

Either way I think a break for you both sounds great but I might say beforehand the subject of dd is banned. There is to be no ranting at you, no waking early to dissect and obsess over it.

FaceLikeCattle · 28/04/2023 21:29

I totally agree with the people who have said that you should go and have fun. Not least because I imagine that the motivation for the other mum is that she is the 'tolerant' one and you are the bad guy. In her eyes she is winning (she has your daughter and hers) and you are losing and bitter. If she hears of you having fun, reality might hit home. She is living with two teenagers (who I am sure argue with both her and each other from time to time), paying for everything, sharing her space with two people who probably don't pull their weight, are messy and have no real house cleaning routine. If they have left school, then she potentially has no escape from them 24 hours a day. I don't even think I could tolerate that from my best friend, let alone someone else's teenager.

I wonder if the same could be said for your DD. Maybe she is punishing you for not accepting her authentic pretend self. The power of punishing you is lost when you don't appear to be upset about it. I think you've seen this in your successful 'letting go of the rope' tactics. She's living with a partner who she gets no breaks from and also someone else's mum, which is hardly a relaxing atmosphere. She has no easy cash, no easy lifts and nobody to do things that parents often do for their teenagers, like make them a sandwich when they can't be bothered to get off the sofa. It's a world of difference between asking your mum for £30 to go out and asking someone else's mum. I'm sure she really misses home but is too stubborn to admit it. Nothing is easy about being in another person's home. Everyday things have that edge of awkwardness: you can't stick on the telly or change the channel whenever you feel like it, you can't eat the last donut, you can't have a 2-hour bath, you can't go to bed 3 hours after everyone else, you can't rearrange your bedroom or even have your own bedroom...

When people have addictions (which her relationship is resembling), some professionals say to the family to remove all support because it's only when they hit rock bottom that they realise the gravity of their situation. I wonder if that's what's working in your case. She's an adult who has moved out, so you're letting her face the reality of supporting herself financially and practically. Now you've removed the satisfaction of having everyone's life revolving around her, it's probably not so much fun. The holidays that she's not joining you on, the fun days out, her favourite meals, having mum organise and pay for concerts, being able to invite her friends round without having to ask her partner. And now she faces her 18th without mum organising or paying for a party/trip to Paris. I think you're absolutely right to not mention it and to not give her any money. You don't exist to be used and discarded whenever it suits her. If X's mum wants to keep her, then she can organise and pay for the party. If she doesn't want to do that, then she can send the child home where she belongs.

I think you're doing an amazing job at being both friendly and welcoming while not at all chasing her or getting involved in any drama. You're just happily living your life and happy for her to live hers.

Original poster
Moomoola · 26/04/2023 08:12

Aw, I thought it would include your onandonandon quote as well mum you did make me laugh. Cheers all!

OP posts:
Original poster
Moomoola · 26/04/2023 08:07

TheClogLady · 25/04/2023 13:56

😆

same in our house too.

Oh, to be young, naive and thoroughly convinced of my own self righteous importance again!

’When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.’

Mark Twain

Unfortunately while this quote may help explain our clashes with our adolescent and young adult children, it doesn’t help explain our clashes with their dads!

@Moomoola - you know what works best from your own experiences- slack rope, friendly responses when required and keeping yourself (and your son) occupied with some trips and activities based on what you actually want to do, not what someone else thinks you should do.

Now that sixth form is almost over your DD and X are going to be living every day in each other’s pockets without much money for travel or partying and no real independence living with X’s mum.
They may find it gets get old very quickly but if your DH starts getting angst your DD will likely dig in as long as possible rather than come home to his moods.

If your DH wants her home he needs to work on becoming the magnet that attracts her back, rather than the kind that keeps pushing her away.

Teenagers can be WELL stubborn.

Show quote history

😂😂😂😂you are both brilliant!

OP posts:
TheClogLady · 25/04/2023 13:56

MumOfYoungTransAdult · 25/04/2023 11:00

Hi Moomola,

Sending you symapthy. Glad to hear you're going to take a break and hopefully DH with you!

And by the way: just because someone goes on
and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on
it doesn't mean that they are right.

Don't ask me how I know that. Grin

😆

same in our house too.

Oh, to be young, naive and thoroughly convinced of my own self righteous importance again!

’When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.’

Mark Twain

Unfortunately while this quote may help explain our clashes with our adolescent and young adult children, it doesn’t help explain our clashes with their dads!

@Moomoola - you know what works best from your own experiences- slack rope, friendly responses when required and keeping yourself (and your son) occupied with some trips and activities based on what you actually want to do, not what someone else thinks you should do.

Now that sixth form is almost over your DD and X are going to be living every day in each other’s pockets without much money for travel or partying and no real independence living with X’s mum.
They may find it gets get old very quickly but if your DH starts getting angst your DD will likely dig in as long as possible rather than come home to his moods.

If your DH wants her home he needs to work on becoming the magnet that attracts her back, rather than the kind that keeps pushing her away.

Teenagers can be WELL stubborn.

MumOfYoungTransAdult · 25/04/2023 11:00

Hi Moomola,

Sending you symapthy. Glad to hear you're going to take a break and hopefully DH with you!

And by the way: just because someone goes on
and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on
it doesn't mean that they are right.

Don't ask me how I know that. Grin

Original poster
Moomoola · 25/04/2023 10:21

You HAVE cheered me up. Ta! 🥾🌸🌸🌸

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MichelleScarn · 25/04/2023 10:20

@Moomoola never apologise for moaning here! We all have your back and are happy to be somewhere you can vent and then not have dd,x, x's mum see that they are affecting you so much, as sadly I feel that is one of the fuels to their fire and helps with their bonding if you can call it that to have you as a 'common enemy' if I make sense?
Go and do some primal screaming into the void!

Original poster
Moomoola · 25/04/2023 10:19

😃 look forward to it!

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Zebracat · 25/04/2023 09:55

I’m going to a bluebell wood later. If I see a crazed woman destroying them, I ll say hi!

Zebracat · 25/04/2023 09:54

@Moomoola Nono sniff the bluebells and breeeaaathe!

Original poster
Moomoola · 25/04/2023 09:47

zebracat you are brilliant, thank you. I’ll find a nice somewhere for the weekend, he so needs a break.
meanwhile I’m printing this out, wot you wrote, and going to kick a few bluebells.
’Nothing will piss Xs mother off quicker than shouldering the burden of your troubled teen while you have fun. ‘
well OKAY then! Hotel it is!

OP posts:
Original poster
Moomoola · 25/04/2023 09:37

Thanks michelle,of course that’s what would happen. I don't want to talk to X or mum, Even if DH wants me to. Ive done that to try and defuse the situation and don’t want to put myself though it again. DD struck me as very naive and has no idea of the hurt she’s caused. I’m just fed up. I don’t want to call DD and be all nicey nicey. I don’t want to talk freely as X will dissect it all. As you’ve all said, dropping the rope seems most effective, but bloody hard and then DH thinks I’m doing nothing. Also aware that I am doing the same old moans on here.
I am irritated with me, I’m off to kick a few puppies. Grrr.

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Zebracat · 25/04/2023 09:26

So tough @Moomoola . I love the way you apologise for the length of your posts. This is your thread , you can vent! Female conditioning is a terrible thing in so many ways. I think your friend is wrong on the name thing. It does seem like participating in a giant lie. Similarly if you run away from your transphobic family, it’s a bit weird to then start hankering after barbecues.
I do feel for your Dh. But he does seem deeply unreasonable, telling you to fix this, by doing exactly what he says. I think men sometimes have a very childlike view of the family, and expect mothers to be able to magically make the boo-boo go away. So it’s a compliment in a way. But We’re not fucking Mary Poppins. I do think his reaction is EXACTLY the response Dd and X would want and expect, a foaming at the mouth transphobe who wont have X in the house. I know he’s not that, reducing anyone to a stereotype is nonsense, but he is so wounded. And you’re right, he will wreck his health. I wonder if you could surprise him with a wellbeing weekend. He may think it’s nonsense, but a bit of meditation and yoga would do him a power of good. If not that, then walking in nature at the weekends. And even if he wont, you should do it, get right away from all of it. There’s an app called Calm which has some great stuff on parenting at times of stress. Maybe you could play it when he’s asleep, and hope it penetrates! Meanwhile, go find some bluebells in a wood.

MichelleScarn · 25/04/2023 08:16

Sorry but I agree with @Zebracat that you cannot keep living everyone's life circling around how dd wants things to be run. I also agree with dh in that I can't see how dd expects you to have 'normal' family events like bbqs with her and x there. You must know by now that these would involve centering dd and x (and x's mum?) With everyone else walking on eggshells around them, waiting for something, anything for them to be upset/offended by and for them to leave in high flounce and for you to be back on the apology merry-go-round.

Original poster
Moomoola · 25/04/2023 07:52

Sorry, long confused post coming up!
Woke up to More frustration off DH. He's frustrated that I'm pussyfooting around. I need to see the mum etc etc. I can do, she will be pleasant and it might stop the us against them thing. DD seemed happy previously when I met her and X, and said, if this is a healthy relationship, we should all be meeting for BBQs and stuff.( I.e, don't cut your family off!)
DH doesn't want X in the house, ever.
He wanted me to call DD last night but didn't want to join in, he couldn't handle it he was so tired. I didn't - I didn't know what I would be saying. He says, say what you think, but of course it's different to what he wants to say.
He asks why I'm not furious with this mum and X. I don't know, its like I can't find my anger. Also, I am feeling disloyal as I am finding his emotions exhausting. He seems to pick on one thing and get obsessive - it makes him good at his job but it can be very exhausting to live with.
We disagree about a friend who is trying to help by sayiing how important new names are to this generation. DH thinks she's not trying to help. I wonder why I'm defending her when she's not even present, so I'll just say , ' yes dear'.
The trouble is, apparently, that 'we are not coming across as United as you disagree with me all the fucking time'. He might not have said f. But regardless it didn't seem a very united comment!
He is so upset - he wants to tell DD to go on then, follow this path and lose your support/ family / financial help.
He won't of course, but she's hurt him deeply. The longer it goes on the more irreparable it all seems.
I'm re reading the Australian thread, and this thread. their must be a way of resolving this.
Thanks! Needed a vent. DH needs to join dadsnet. I need a coffee.
Regards, if you've got this far !

OP posts:
Original poster
Moomoola · 25/04/2023 04:44

Hello zebracat. I really appreciate your post. Especially as DH came in super early and, like every night last week, was upset about DD and exhausted and went to bed at stupidly early o clock. I can hear him upstairs now telling his parents how she doesn’t care. He’d love them to talk to her as she might listen to them, but they of course, have their own problems.

im getting concerned about him, he has a mentally demanding job, was seriously I’ll a few years back and now this. I read him your suggestions of partying which made him laugh, so thanks!

your post got to me ( as quite a few posts on here do) when you said, ‘I have honestly spent a lifetime putting other peoples needs ahead of my own, and I really really wish I hadn’t. ‘
I’m really sorry you feel that. I feel the same. I think our culture is very persuasive that we women do,. Especially mums. Actually I think we’ve all been conned.
Well done for finding your own boundaries and being a strong and brilliant mum.
im thinking what you’ve said about seeing each other as individuals and expressing our true selves.

OP posts:
Zebracat · 24/04/2023 14:45

Travelling might make Dd feel she was missing out. Because she is. But that’s not why I’m suggesting it. You cannot just freeze 3 peoples lives because of Dd. She has moved out. If you all focus on that and wait for her return, you do yourselves and her a great disservice.
I have honestly spent a lifetime putting other peoples needs ahead of my own, and I really really wish I hadn’t.
I am in the opposite situation to you because our inherited Dd is back home after not taking to University. I didn’t realise how much I was looking forward to her going until she came back. She is quite needy and I am so tired of the mental load. My friends are all retired and child free now and doing all sorts of lovely stuff together. And we are looking at Uni courses again only without the optimism. But I have stepped back a lot. She’s doing her own admin, and sometimes making a mess of it , but I’m not stepping in. She’s chosen a course I hate, but that’s her choice. I’ve let her know that we need space, I answer honestly If she asks what I think.
Maybe this is an opportunity for your Dd to start seeing you all as individuals, and vice versa. But it isn’t only transpeople who need to express their true selves. We can all use a bit of that!

Original poster
Moomoola · 24/04/2023 13:46

Thanks wednesday
no,2rebecca we aren’t - and tbf she’s not asked.
i think she’s borrowing off X and paying her back when she has a job ( I don’t know if she has). She hasn’t taken any of her stuff. The mum said she’d bought DD some pants, and that’s it.
i just hope the grief she’s causing is worth it. I also hope she’s not secretly wanting to come home or at least leave, and unable to say. But that’s just wishful thinking.

OP posts:
2Rebecca · 24/04/2023 10:40

Are you giving her money? Most 17 year olds who choose to leave home against parental advice would not be getting regular cash donations

wednesdaynamesep · 24/04/2023 10:30

Trans isn’t exactly a new idea, but this mysogynistic ideology is.

This with bells and whistles attached. Simply and perfectly expressed.

Original poster
Moomoola · 24/04/2023 08:29

Thanks arabella that’s a really useful link. thank you!
lilybestythank you, I’m glad it helped! I’m full of admiration too, the support and advice on here are so fantabulous. I’d be utterly lost without it.

thanks highdays. DH just wants her back. He writes texts and deletes them, he stops himself calling her.it’s horrible. he doesn’t dictate so much as we try and work out what to say together, but he is obviously devastated. He thinks by being too jolly we are giving her a lifeline so she feels OK to carry on. his male friends suggest letting her know we love her but as she’s chosen to be on her own, well ok then, and cutting off her phone.
thank you everyone for the text advice!
’Mumsnet committee says send a heart emoji’ thanks, this made me laugh arabella
heart emoji and some sympathy sent!
i casually texted,’Wotcha doing’ and got a reply ! I Resisted all attempts to make a convo or call as advised..so communication is tentatively open again, phew! You are right about the rope being loose Wednesday. And all.

dear faffertea, blimey, the whole thread!Thank you for your post, I think you absolutely have a point.I’ve long suspected DH and DD of being ND. This helps me put some behaviours into a context, Good luck with the assessments , and to you bez anxiety is horrible.

Thanks pauline of course you are right that DD needs a safe space which is why I’ve always been open about what I’ve been up to in my youff. Trans isn’t exactly a new idea, but this mysogynistic ideology is.
faffertea sums the situation beautifully..

’X has created a narrative where you are the evil transphobe parents and to keep her hold on dd she needs you to play that role. Partly because she has her own narrative (which she has probably been at least partly groomed into believing) that everyone hates trans people, they have to fight for everything because they are so despised. But also because it reinforces the “us and them” narrative she is feeding dd. No one understands dd like she does, only she loves dd really and only their love and relationship will get them through, it’s ‘us against the world’. All very theatrical for someone who loves the drama and needs to control and isolate dd. If you don’t play that part, she can’t use it to feed her story. ‘

nothavingit also beautifully says, and I totally agree with this - ‘it is not a neutral act for a trusted adult to start affirming a trans identity and using pronouns - as this often traps the child into the assumed identity and makes it more difficult to desist.’

And,also agree with ……’When you say " open to a new idea" do you mean being open to believe that it is possible to change sex, and that cross sex hormones and possibly a mastectomy are no big deal? Or that women's rights and protections must be scafriced for that belief?’

Thank you clogkady and zebracat Very wise words! Hmm. Less money needed for air fares..! Travelling would make DD feel she was missing out.

sorry such a long post. Appreciate your help so much.

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Zebracat · 22/04/2023 21:22

I wouldn’t be using a new name. It is perfectly possible to Politely use no name at all. If she noticed, Id just agree I wasn’t using it, cos it didn’t sit right with me. But I would not debate it. Honestly, don’t overthink it, keep things light, resort to cliches.
I think you need to get your husband on board. Fact is you can both obsess over the loss of your daughter, scream and stamp and put your life on hold, or you can think , this has come earlier than we expected and might end in tears, but meanwhile we have more space time and cash for us. Let’s party!
Nothing will piss Xs mother off quicker than shouldering the burden of your troubled teen while you have fun. Worth it for that alone. Really, make sure a week doesn’t go by without something special happening in your house, even if it’s a small thing.

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