Helen Joyce on Triggernometry

She's excellent - so clear, so specific, and well-informed. I'd not seen Triggernometry before and I was impressed how much they let her speak.

She's always so clear and considered, a wonderful spokeswoman for us.

The recent Triggernometry interview with Andrew Doyle was v good too.

I’ve just googled Mumsnet Triggernometry to see if this has been covered as I was going to share.

I love these podcasts and listened to this one in the car and thought it was excellent.

glad there’s already a thread on it.

Mid way through listening. I just love her. So straight forward, bold, brave. Must be more Helen

I actually think the points she raises in the last few minutes are as worth highlighting as everything else. I agree with her so strongly on how wrong society is getting the wellbeing and development of children.

Yes there's too much self rumination encouraged. Mindfulness in the way it's touted in schools has been shown to actually be damaging.

Imo normal childhood enjoyable activities are their form of mindfulness. Playing, art, music, games, forest school stuff, swimming, rolling around on the beach.

Brilliant. She always says what matters so clearly!

Watching this is the first time I have listened at length to Helen.. She is clear and knowledgeable, kind and compassionate, able to respond to points raised and clarify statements when asked. Really v impressive and reassuring.

I actually think the points she raises in the last few minutes are as worth highlighting as everything else. I agree with her so strongly on how wrong society is getting the wellbeing and development of children.

I too raised my eyebrows when she made that statement, but then immediately heard her qualifying points. And I think she does well to spell this out and acknowledge the concerns of those who wish to campaign for 'Trans Rights' because separate accomodation or facilities for this group maybe something they want to raise and campaign for and that would be their choice. But she's very clear that those facilities should be within the context of the male estate. And she's very careful to point out that many incarcerated groups are vulnerable and should have their particular needs and wants considered. She refers, many times, through the interview to the damaging and still very present homophobia in our society for example.

WildIris, I think other vulnerable groups do get special treatment too.

Loved the interview with Helen. Particularly her point about the circular definitions - i also have a mathematical background and that was a big sticking point for me too when I first learned about all this.

While I was there I watched Oli London too. Expecting to hate it, but he made surprisingly much sense and I ended up feeling sorry for him. Following on from Helen obviously he was obviously less informed, but as a personal story you could see how he ended up where he did. I just hope for his sake that he manages to stay there and doesn't move on to a new self-harming obsession just as fast.

Yes, I’m probably misinterpreting/overthinking it.

At the end of the clip on the Twitter link, she says that transwomen are a vulnerable group of men and a separate wing would, potentially, be a good option.

She also acknowledged that there are plenty of vulnerable groups within the male estate and that prison officers have to manage awful violence in the male estate for these various vulnerable groups.

I was just wondering why transwomen would get special treatment and not the other vulnerable groups.

Sorry, it’s a matter close to my heart and I’m a bit sensitive about it - ignore me! 😀

It's shameful she's never been on the BBC.

Right now on BBC Radio 4 is an extended interview with Whoopi Goldberg doing a review of her life and works. Certain controversial views aren't a barrier to being given such a platform on the BBC.

nypost.com/2022/12/27/whoopi-goldberg-forced-to-apologize-again-for-repeating-holocaust-slur/

She is so articulate, picking apart the whole mess. Her observation '...it's so much easier to pretend behind your avatar' struck home for me.

She's the best. I love Helen.
It's shameful she's never been on the BBC. She IS the voice of reason and compassion.
And I'd never really thought about what she's sacrificed. Never asked to discuss any other topic because she discusses this. It's so wrong.

the thing that made me stop and think was when she said if you decide to speak on this topic you cannot speak on anything else, because you will become unemployable. I know we know this. But for me it heightens the sacrifices these women are making. I find I feel humbled and resolve to do whatever I can do to support them.

100%

Bit of an odd take by Helen, who supposedly gets it.

How's it "odd"? You're going to have to spell this out for me.

I trust you've seen the wider context, and heard the relevant part of the interview they're discussing? - starts at 36:58.

I guess you can argue they shouldn't be vulnerable, because homophobia/transphobia/gender-policing shouldn't be a thing, but a male prison is unlikely to be the most progressive gender-critical express-yourself-however-you-like anti-bullying environment.

And she's not suggesting they're somehow more vulnerable than all the other vulnerable groups of men she mentions.

wildIris if you watch the interview you’ll see Helen explains what she means very clearly.

WildIris · Today 13:40
Bit of an odd take by Helen, who supposedly gets it

twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1612413216906436609?cxt=HHwWgoDTjeTRuOAsAAAA
Helen Joyce on Triggernometry

I am not sure if I’ve understood what you mean but I took it that she is conceding this point of agreement about transwomen being vulnerable in prisons in order to diverge from tras in her opinion about what the solution is.

In the context she is separating the issues:

Women have sex based private spaces where this particular group of men (transwomen) should not be allowed.

This group of men (transwomen), just like some other groups of men whom she lists, are vulnerable in men’s prisons and need their own wing. That is the solution. Not putting them into women’s prisons.

beastlyslumber· Yesterday 21:58
Space here if anyone wants to discuss. I've only seen the first couple of minutes and had to switch it off and look at some puppies, but will fortify myself and watch the rest tomorrow.

Thank you very much. That is so clearly argued.

See 0:59 minutes in to see why to sign the Sex-Matters petition about updating the Equality Act to make clear that sex means biological sex.

Very interesting question at the end too about ‘What is the one thing we aren’t talking about that we need to?” H J answers that it is children’s mental health.

Bit of an odd take by Helen, who supposedly gets it.

twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1612413216906436609?cxt=HHwWgoDTjeTRuOAsAAAA

What a good listen. Always a relief to hear someone speak so eloquently and compassionately without the errs and umms that follow trying to adhere to the intimidatory language 'rules'.
I suspect we wouldn't be in this position if women had been allowed to speak freely about the porn pushers, the flashers, the coercive controllers who were evident even in the early days (thinking of some of those invited to the parliament to share their demands).

I've listened to it as a podcast. Riveting and brilliant.

What I like is that she really cares about the health (mental and physical) of the people caught up in this ideology, even the middle-aged men whose 'transness' is probably a fetish - she points out that such a sexual desire can often be troubling and come with gender dysphoria.

She is hugely compassionate, and also knows her stuff - the data, the facts & figures.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4346341-James-Lisa-Shupe-on-autogynephilia

@NancyDrawed in 2021 Benjamin Boyce interviewed Lisa/James Shupe who spoke about that problem. I was struck by his saying that the AGP tendency was uncontrollably strong unless he took cross sex hormones. So if he said to medical professionals he had dysphoria and took CSH he had an easier time controlling his fetish. If he tried not to take the CSH the AGP returned with a vengeance. He put this down to the effect of testosterone in the body. It was a very honest conversation, there was a thread about it at the time here, although it looks as if the interview has been taken down. I am glad that Helen highlights this problem, with compassion, and also says that the answer is not to simply roll over and accept that this is the way things are now. She does say that society needs a compassionate answer, but just agreeing is not it.

There are many women who speak in compelling ways in this issue but HJ speaks with such impressive, soothing clarity I could listen to her for hours. Her manner is direct and no nonsense without being confrontational. She just such a pleasure to listen to.

I'm so glad that she made the point that anyone who actually cares about people with gender dysphoria would not embrace this ideology. Anyone struggling to accept their own body deserves the medical and political establishment to take it as seriously as any other condition and should have the same right to have their treatment informed by robust research.

I'm also glad that she stuck to her guns on language; men who think they are women is accurate.

She gives me confidence we will win.