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Original poster

Please help! Gender not sex on a school 'protected characteristics' poster, just spoken to the Head!

994 replies

Vebrithien · 06/01/2023 09:55

Good morning,

I started this thread before Christmas

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4684558-today-i-found-my-bravery?page=1

The overview is that my DD's primary school is displaying posters by No Outsiders, which are supposed to show the 9 protected characteristics, but shows gender, not sex.

The (male) deputy head I mentioned it to, before Christmas, has not got back to me. The posters are still there.

I summoned up my courage this morning, and spoke to the Headteacher. She seemed surprised, as I said I'd already mentioned it to one deputy head, and that I'd picked up on it due to my school expecting Ofsted, and reissuing our equality training.

The Head said that it was surprising, as No Outsiders were an organisation whose specialism was equalities.

I replied that the EA2010 says sex, not gender. I also mentioned that there were some concerning resources produced by them, including an assembly where a dad wants to offer violence to children who do not accept his trans child. (I know no more than this)

The Head is going to talk to her other deputy head, whose responsibility this is, and to try to put us in contact.

Where do I do from here?

Can any one help me with evidence? What particularly is dodgy about No Outsiders?

Is there anything that states that schools mustn't misrepresent the EA?

Is there any DofE (or whatever it's called now) guidance for schools on the resources they used or how they represent the EA?

And, how should I go about finding out if the school uses other No Outsiders resources?

Please help, I want as much evidence as I can.

Still shaking with adrenaline from speaking to the Head!

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Original poster
Vebrithien · 27/01/2023 15:54

How beautifully nuanced and well expressed.

FUCKING SPECTACULAR

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ScrollingLeaves · 27/01/2023 15:13

That is wonderful. How beautifully nuanced and well expressed.

Did you write it @rabbitwoman ? I gather it is thanks to you at any rate.

Original poster
Vebrithien · 27/01/2023 15:11

I have read the transgender guidance from @rabbitwoman's LEA.

It is fucking spectacular!

I particularly like this bit.

Sex and gender are often conflated to mean the same thing; in order for clarity, it is important that these terms are used correctly. Sex refers to the biological and physiological characteristics that define a child as either male/boy or female/girl. Gender is a social construct that can mean different things to different people; each culture will have its own set of gender stereotypes in terms of the roles, behaviours and expressions associated with either sex.
• Children and adults should be able to express themselves in ways that do not conform to stereotypical gender norms. A girl should be able to display a range of feminine to masculine characteristics without feeling that she is being wrong for doing so; and likewise for boys.
• Gender non-conformity can be common in children and adults as people rarely fit neatly into generalised stereotypes. Children should be encouraged to feel safe, secure and ok within their own body however they express themselves.

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SinnerBoy · 27/01/2023 15:02

I'd copy them all in, so as the Deputy can't just ignore it.

Original poster
Vebrithien · 27/01/2023 14:55

Right then.

I have copied and pasted all of the ideas and references, such as I have, into a message and have emailed it to myself.

My next step will be to organise all of this into a coherent email I can send.

I still need to find the reference for teachers not perpetuating harmful stereotypes.

I could do with some more examples of schools or LEAs that have rejected No Outsiders.

I need to have more of a look through the guidance sent to me by @rabbitwoman.

Bloody hell, this email is going to be huuuge!

I also need to think about if I send it just to the DepHead, or also copy in the Head and the governors.

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Original poster
Vebrithien · 27/01/2023 14:20

I have not raised this issue with the school, as I wanted to be clear on the content first.

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Original poster
Vebrithien · 27/01/2023 14:19

Well, yes, that is also true.

Strangely, my first thought, when I initially saw the poster, and could only see the title, was shock. I thought it means that outsiders were not welcome.

Of course, I had a closer look, and then saw the sex/gender bubble swap

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Xenia · 27/01/2023 13:49

I am not even sure I agree No outsiders should be any school's policy. Someone who beats up other children or says they are 16 but are 21 or who ruins the classroom space for others or stabs others is an outside who is not wanted and the sooner they are marched out the door the better.

WarriorN · 27/01/2023 12:37

Very good points

Original poster
Vebrithien · 27/01/2023 12:36

More from their safeguarding policy;

We are committed to anti-discriminatory practice and recognise children’s diverse circumstances. We ensure
that all children have the same protection, regardless of any barriers they may face.

We give special consideration to children who:

  1. have special educational needs or disabilities (SEND) or health conditions
  2. are young carers
  3. may experience discrimination due to their race, ethnicity, religion, gender identification or sexuality
  4. have English as an additional language (EAL)
  5. are known to be living in difficult situations
6.are at risk of FGM, sexual exploitation, forced marriage, or radicalisation

*1. Children with SEND need language with clear definitions to be taught. Sex has a clear, biological definition. Gender does not.

  1. How is sexuality defined, if gender is used rather than biological sex? Likewise, how is gender identity defined, without reference gendered stereotypes, if sex is not referenced?
  1. Children with EAL need clear, concise language. Sex has a clear definition, gender does not.
  1. If gender is used rather than sex, the FGM becomes difficult to define.*
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Original poster
Vebrithien · 27/01/2023 12:26

The school safeguarding policy states at the beginning, with the sources it uses;

Governing bodies and proprietors should carefully consider how they’re supporting their pupils and
students regarding particular protected characteristics (including disability, sex, sexual orientation,
gender reassignment and race) under the Equality Act 2010.

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ScrollingLeaves · 27/01/2023 12:25

As far as I can tell, they are using Jigsaw for their RSE

Jigsaw is full of gender ideology unfortunately.

We all need a book of guidance for de-programming our children.

WarriorN · 27/01/2023 12:08

When I first got a letter from my children's school about NO I read the whole title in a grammatically different way. As in No (to) outsiders- it didn't initially read well at all.

NancyDrawed · 27/01/2023 11:56

Sorry for the trivial diversion but on the plaque:

'No one is the same' doesn't make sense to me!

Surely 'no two are the same' ?

Other than that and as a standalone message, I think it is a good one to promote in schools, that we are all different, but equal. The not EA2010 posters, however...

Original poster
Vebrithien · 27/01/2023 11:22

Not seen those plaques either, will check the reception area when I can get in there next.

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Original poster
Vebrithien · 27/01/2023 11:21

As far as I can tell, they are using Jigsaw for their RSE, I don't know if they are using No Outsiders for anything else. It isn't mentioned in their safeguarding/inclusion policy.

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WarriorN · 27/01/2023 11:07

Honestly that's a lot of money for a bit of plastic to virtue signal.

Sorry I'm still unclear- theyre not running the programme?

Please help! Gender not sex on a school 'protected characteristics' poster, just spoken to the Head!
WarriorN · 27/01/2023 11:05

Don't understand the point of whacking some inaccurate posters up if they're not following the programme!

Ofsted, clearly. But they will need to be prepared for Ofsted inspectors to ask the children what the characteristics are as they did in a local primary school to me. The children couldn't answer what trans was and this was noted as negative by the inspector 😠

Boiledbeetle · 27/01/2023 11:04

Abuse not advice

Boiledbeetle · 27/01/2023 11:03

5. Final comment about how important it is that we teach young children to use clear, defined language, to describe themselves and the world around them.

This is very important.his unwillingness to use sex on the pretence that children will be embarrassed etc is disingenuous. He should know that young children must be told there are two types of humans. They cannot tell someone of sexual advise if they have no correct words to describe the attacker.

at the very least If when questioned an abused child describes their penised attacker as a woman it then discredits all of that child's evidence.

Original poster
Vebrithien · 27/01/2023 10:52

Some issues, not as bad as many other providers.

Looks like it is only the No Outsiders posters and "plaques"

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BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 27/01/2023 10:44

There's a bit about Jigsaw here www.transgendertrend.com/teaching-gender-ideology-schools/

WarriorN · 27/01/2023 10:41

😬 yikes, I'd look at the SSAUK jigsaw sections too then.

Are they just using the NO poster or are they running the full programme?

Original poster
Vebrithien · 27/01/2023 10:33

Their PHSE online policy states that they use Jigsaw resources - has anyone else heard of this?

They quote that it is informed by the EA.

One thing under "pupils should know" is:

that marriage represents a formal and

legally recognised commitment of two

people to each other which is intended to

be lifelong (Marriage in England and

Wales is available to both opposite sex

and same sex couples. The Marriage

(Same Sex Couples) Act 2013 extended

marriage to same sex couples in England

and Wales

How are they proposing to teach this, if they do not use the term sex?

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