WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports · 30/01/2023 17:17

As a fellow biology teacher I've read through the thread and I just wanted to say I LOVE this letter it is perfect. Hopefully you can get them to back down but that Deputy Head sounds utterly captured.

ArabellaScott · 30/01/2023 17:10

Having a good read back through and catch up, OP.

'I think the term sex muddies the issue. '

I think it does the opposite, It's very clear.

'It means something else and young children can read it and think it’s funny. I also don’t want Y2 children going home saying “We learned about sex today” when they actually really talked about gender.'

If they want to teach children about 'gender' then they are going to have to define that, and if he wants to be clear that it's differentiated from sex, then he needs to define both terms and describe the differences.

I personally don't think we should be teaching young kids about such contested, complex terms. People pursue academic careers talking obfuscatory bullshit exploring the term 'gender'.

'Sex' is very simple, though. It seems to me that he is being deliberately coy about something. If he doesn't want children to be giggling or getting confused, then perhaps they are not ready to be learning about these concepts at all? Vague concepts of 'inclusion' don't need to name these terms at all.

'I think gender as a term is useful when you later talk about gender reassignment. You have your gender but then you can also reassign your gender.'

Ah. And what the everloving fuck does 'reassigning' gender actually mean? He needs to spell this out. It means to try to pursue a different set of stereotypes.

'They fit together – it makes for uncomplicated explanations and conversations further up the school.'

What, when he's going to correct children using 'gender' when they should be using 'sex'? No, that's inconsistent.

For this reason I am clear that the poster is not an Equality Act poster and it doesn’t mention the equality act on there. If we’re talking specifically about the Equality Act with older children and they use the term sex, I will correct them, but I think it is the concept behind the language for younger children that is more important – all different, all equal. The aim of the poster is to make clear and accessible for children all the ways we are different and all the ways we are accepted.'

What a lot of self justifying waffle. He knows how to bullshit, that's clear.

No Outsiders is clearly pushing a political agenda. He's accusing 'other people' of doing that, because that's exactly what he's doing.

Your letter is great. I would send it!

NancyDrawed · 30/01/2023 17:00

That is a calm and well referenced letter and I think you are right to wait until after the current strike action to send it.

I wonder what the Dep H will respond with? And I wonder how much she will be cursing the No Outsiders lot after reading it! I actually feel a teeny bit sorry for her - she probably thought that by talking to the 'experts' she was doing a great thing regarding making the school an inclusive environment (that 'i' word puts my teeth on edge these days, we all know which group they prioritise) but seems to have gone about doing so at the expense of safeguarding and outside of DfE guidelines.

FYI, typo - it is Safe Schools Alliance

Xenia · 30/01/2023 16:28

It's good. Send it,

Original poster

Vebrithien · 30/01/2023 16:27

Sounds like a perfect night in!

I realise the message is a big read, and I will send it after this week's strikes, but what do you think? Is there anything extraneous I can take out? Anything that MUST be in?

I've tried to write fairly dispassionately, and backed up everything I have said with references. Apart from the extraordinary need for SEN and EAL students to have clear and definite language used. But that is evident in normal teaching practice.

OP posts:

Boiledbeetle · 30/01/2023 16:23

Big cake and wine for you, and accidental chocolate it won't delete.

🍫🍰🍷

Vebrithien · 2023-01-06T09:55:37+00:00

Good morning, I started this thread before Christmas https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4684558-today-i-found-my-bravery?page=1 The overview is that my DD's primary school is displaying posters by No Outsiders, which are supposed to show the 9 protected characteristics, but shows gender, not sex. The (male) deputy head I mentioned it to, before Christmas, has not got back to me. The posters are still there. I summoned up my courage this morning, and spoke to the Headteacher. She seemed surprised, as I said I'd already mentioned it to one deputy head, and that I'd picked up on it due to my school expecting Ofsted, and reissuing our equality training. The Head said that it was surprising, as No Outsiders were an organisation whose specialism was equalities. I replied that the EA2010 says sex, not gender. I also mentioned that there were some concerning resources produced by them, including an assembly where a dad wants to offer violence to children who do not accept his trans child. (I know no more than this) The Head is going to talk to her other deputy head, whose responsibility this is, and to try to put us in contact. Where do I do from here? Can any one help me with evidence? What particularly is dodgy about No Outsiders? Is there anything that states that schools mustn't misrepresent the EA? Is there any DofE (or whatever it's called now) guidance for schools on the resources they used or how they represent the EA? And, how should I go about finding out if the school uses other No Outsiders resources? Please help, I want as much evidence as I can. Still shaking with adrenaline from speaking to the Head!

Original poster

Vebrithien · 30/01/2023 16:21

ARRRRRRGH

Ahem.

OP posts:

Boiledbeetle · 30/01/2023 16:18

@Vebrithien I'm of no use in this subject but you may want to use you're bigly scream now!

Original poster

Vebrithien · 30/01/2023 16:17

Oh poop, posted the whole message again, rather than just the references!

OP posts:

Original poster

Vebrithien · 30/01/2023 16:15

References
Dear DepHead,

Thank you for your email, dated 26/01/2023.

On the 11th of January, we discussed the No Outsiders posters displayed in school, which show nine attributes or categories of people that are welcome in the school, and who are "equal". Eight of these attributes/categories are the EA 2010 protected characteristics, with their exact wording in law. The ninth category, which in law is "sex" has been replaced with "gender", which has no current definition in law.

My first concern is that this is at odds with the 2020 Department of Education RSE guidance, which states that outside agencies and resources must be checked by yourselves, to ensure that they comply with the Equality Act 2010. (A)

Please see below for excerpts, references and source links.

My second concern is with the use of No Outsides resources, as this organisation, whilst the subject of an investigation, has been shown to have a political agenda. I would suggest reading the research, hosted by Transgender Trend (B). This investigation highlights the deliberate conflation of sex and gender, as well as Andrew Moffat's involvement as a co-presenter of a paper entitled "Queering the Body: Queering Primary Education". I would suggest that by asking "if we should change the gender bubble in future" (back to sex) the external provider is acknowledging that they are aware the current poster is incorrect.

Schools have a legal duty to remain politically impartial, and must not promote partisan political views, but should offer a balanced presentation of opposing views (C). Are there any resources used in school which highlight the importance, and protected status, of biological sex? I would argue that, as a minimum, there should be posters on display that correctly show the 9 protected characteristics of the Equality Act. Safe School Alliance have produced a free, downloadable copy, as an example of best practice (D). I am aware of schools who have removed the No Outsiders posters, due to parental complaints about their inaccuracy.

It is important that young children are taught to use clear, defined language, to describe themselves and the world around them. Gender is defined by Stonewall as "Often expressed in terms of masculinity and femininity, gender is largely culturally determined and is assumed from the sex assigned at birth." (E). The UK Government states gender is "a social construction relating to behaviours and attributes based on labels of masculinity and femininity" (F) The World Health Organisation definition is that gender is based on socially constructed features. (G)

If children cannot clearly describe their world and body, it places cracks in their safeguarding, especially with the most vunerable children. From your own safeguarding policy, you state that "We give special consideration to children who:

have special educational needs or disabilities (SEND) or health conditions
are young carers
may experience discrimination due to their race, ethnicity, religion, gender identification or sexuality
have English as an additional language (EAL)
are known to be living in difficult situations
are at risk of FGM, sexual exploitation, forced marriage, or radicalisation

By conflating sex and gender, this discriminates against students with SEND and EAL, who have an exceptional requirement for clear and defined language. Likewise, as gender is defined as having a social and cultural determination, the use of gender rather than sex discriminates against students of a different race, culture or ethnicity. It also does not allow for the clear safeguarding of female children at risk of FGM.

Yours,
Veb

References

A.

"When deciding on the external agencies and resources to use, you should make appropriate checks to ensure that the agencies’ approach to teaching relationships education, relationships and sex education and health education and the resources that they plan to use comply with:

the Equality Act 2010"

Source: Department for Education, Guidance; planning your relationship, sex and health education curriculum, September 2020

Link: www.gov.uk/guidance/plan-your-relationships-sex-and-health-curriculum#using-external-agencies

Last accessed on: 24/01/2023

B.

Source: No Outsiders: Queering the Primary Classroom , Transgender Trend, April 2019

Link: www.transgendertrend.co/no-outsiders-queering-primary-classroom

Last accesed on: 28/01/2023

C.

Source: Department for Education, Guidance; Political impartiality in schools, Februrary 2022

Link: www.gov.uk/government/publications/political-impartiality-in-schools

Last accessed on: 28/01/2023

D.

Source: Safe Schools Alliance, Equality Act Protected Characteristics Poster

Link: safeschoolallianceuk.net/resources-2/factsheets/

Last acessed on: 28/01/2023

E.
Source: List of TGBTQ terms, Stonewall

Link: www.stonewall.org.uk/list-lgbtq-terms

Last accessed on: 30.01.2023

F.
Source: What is the difference between sex and gender? Office for National Statistics, UK Government, Feb 2019

Link: www.ons.gov.uk/economy/environmentalaccounts/articles/whatisthedifferencebetweensexandgender/2019-02-21

Last accessed on: 30/01/2023

G.
Source: Gender, Health Topics, World Health Organisation

Link: www.who.int/europe/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1

Last accessed on: 30/01/2023

OP posts:

Original poster

Vebrithien · 30/01/2023 16:14

Dear DepHead,

Thank you for your email, dated 26/01/2023.

On the 11th of January, we discussed the No Outsiders posters displayed in school, which show nine attributes or categories of people that are welcome in the school, and who are "equal". Eight of these attributes/categories are the EA 2010 protected characteristics, with their exact wording in law.
The ninth category, which in law is "sex" has been replaced with "gender", which has no current definition in law.

My first concern is that this is at odds with the 2020 Department of Education RSE guidance, which states that outside agencies and resources must be checked by yourselves, to ensure that they comply with the Equality Act 2010. (A)

Please see below for excerpts, references and source links.

My second concern is with the use of No Outsides resources, as this organisation, whilst the subject of an investigation, has been shown to have a political agenda. I would suggest reading the research, hosted by Transgender Trend (B). This investigation highlights the deliberate conflation of sex and gender, as well as Andrew Moffat's involvement as a co-presenter of a paper entitled "Queering the Body: Queering Primary Education". I would suggest that by asking "if we should change the gender bubble in future" (back to sex) the external provider is acknowledging that they are aware the current poster is incorrect.

Schools have a legal duty to remain politically impartial, and must not promote partisan political views, but should offer a balanced presentation of opposing views (C). Are there any resources used in school which highlight the importance, and protected status, of biological sex? I would argue that, as a minimum, there should be posters on display that correctly show the 9 protected characteristics of the Equality Act. Safe School Alliance have produced a free, downloadable copy, as an example of best practice (D). I am aware of schools who have removed the No Outsiders posters, due to parental complaints about their inaccuracy.

It is important that young children are taught to use clear, defined language, to describe themselves and the world around them. Gender is defined by Stonewall as "Often expressed in terms of masculinity and femininity, gender is largely culturally determined and is assumed from the sex assigned at birth." (E). The UK Government states gender is "a social construction relating to behaviours and attributes based on labels of masculinity and femininity" (F) The World Health Organisation definition is that gender is based on socially constructed features. (G)

If children cannot clearly describe their world and body, it places cracks in their safeguarding, especially with the most vunerable children. From your own safeguarding policy, you state that "We give special consideration to children who:

have special educational needs or disabilities (SEND) or health conditions
are young carers
may experience discrimination due to their race, ethnicity, religion, gender identification or sexuality
have English as an additional language (EAL)
are known to be living in difficult situations
are at risk of FGM, sexual exploitation, forced marriage, or radicalisation

By conflating sex and gender, this discriminates against students with SEND and EAL, who have an exceptional requirement for clear and defined language. Likewise, as gender is defined as having a social and cultural determination, the use of gender rather than sex discriminates against students of a different race, culture or ethnicity. It also does not allow for the clear safeguarding of female children at risk of FGM.

Yours,
Veb

OP posts:

Original poster

Vebrithien · 30/01/2023 16:11

Right, well, here is my third draft, and reply to the DepHead email. I'll post it in the next message, and put the references in a third message. I'm not going to send it immediately, as I suspect it would get "lost" in the chaos of the strikes.

Please let me know what you think, any possible alterations and any typos!

OP posts:

bignosebignose · 30/01/2023 11:57

Xenia · 28/01/2023 12:08

I think the next response should be kept short. People tend to read shorter things particularly busy teachers. I am a lawyer and clients often want to send page after page whereas a few bullet point often as has good an effect (which is very frustrating when you have a lot you want to say of course....)

I can see the logic in this but you could get the best of both worlds if you preferred - brief recap/ introduction, then all the bullet points together to act as a sort of executive summary, then a fuller explanation of each bullet point to spell them out in detail and make them harder to wave away through deliberate misinterpretation.

Carouselfish · 30/01/2023 11:12

I don't know whether this has made it onto the boards yet, but the gov recently responded to the petition about making it clear sex is the characteristic regarding single sex spaces. Sex and then room for them to include transgender people if they wish to, but they absolutely do not have to. petition.parliament.uk/petitions/623243?reveal_response=yes#response-threshold

FrancescaContini · 30/01/2023 08:01

Thank you for the link, @Xenia

Xenia · 29/01/2023 22:13

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/23/schools-block-parents-seeing-harmful-sex-education-materials/

ScrollingLeaves · 29/01/2023 17:15

OP, this is recent from the Sex Matters website. It is related to their Equality Act petition to make clear that the characteristic sex is biological sex you will have seen.
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/623243

I thought this new list from Dec Matters might be useful:
10 Reasons why sex means sex in
The Equality Act
1
Everyone is entitled to protection
from sex discrimination
2
Words in legislation should have a
consistent, coherent meaning
3
Groups that "share a protected
characteristic" should be
meaningful
A
Single-sex associations must be
permitted
5
Single-sex schools should be
allowed
6
Single-sex higher education
institutions should be allowed
Single-sex charities should be
allowed
8
The single-sex services exceptions
concern the reality of bodies
9
When a job requires a woman or a
man it is because of their sex
10
Public bodies should consider how
policies impact on women and men
sign the petition
seXmatters

ScrollingLeaves · 29/01/2023 16:13

It is so difficult. All my sympathy goes out to you.

Original poster

Vebrithien · 29/01/2023 13:56

Working on my reply. Feel sick, every time ai think about it.
Can't discuss with DH, he isn't interested.

OP posts:

Xenia · 28/01/2023 12:08

I think the next response should be kept short. People tend to read shorter things particularly busy teachers. I am a lawyer and clients often want to send page after page whereas a few bullet point often as has good an effect (which is very frustrating when you have a lot you want to say of course....)

HighWindows1 · 28/01/2023 12:00

I have posted elsewhere but can I please drop this here also : m.youtube.com/watch?v=Np2t-E4SVxU

Is is a link to Isla Mac parents against Gender Ideaology - it's a short YouTube video guiding you through an effective way to approach schools about this. It's excellent, so is she and the other information on her channel. Her letter is very direct and too the point with regards to any teaching of genderism your child might be exposed to.

rabbitwoman · 28/01/2023 11:32

ScrollingLeaves · 27/01/2023 15:13

That is wonderful. How beautifully nuanced and well expressed.

Did you write it @rabbitwoman ? I gather it is thanks to you at any rate.

Ahaha, I wish I could take credit but I did not write it, no.

The guidance was emailed round to all the teachers at our school October time? I felt dread at first but when I read it I nearly cried with relief - in the acknowledgements on the last page it thanks Sex Matters. It lists transgender trend, sex matters and the safe school's alliance as resources (also Stonewall, but no mermaids!!)

But it doesn't seem to be widespread and I have no idea why my LEA has it - I don't know how much influence MPs have over school's guidance, but my MP is very much GC. Hopefully we are just one of the first of many and this is the way forward!!

Again, if anyone would like a copy, DM me :-)

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 27/01/2023 16:25

(Adding my voice to those who initially thought from the name that No Outsiders was some sort of National Front type thing.)

ChristinaXYZ · 27/01/2023 16:04

Vebrithien · 26/01/2023 23:49

Safe Schools Alliance have replied already, below is their message. Need to think about how I word my reply to the school, and then move onto a complaint. My MP is fully TWAW, and has written to me to dismiss my concerns about the GRR and men in women's prisons.

Hi Veb,

We too are horrified by this response, both from the school and No Outsiders.

He knows he is causing grave offence with these posters - he has previously blocked both ourselves and others on twitter for pointing this out.

He clearly knows that this is a contentious political issue from his response.

If you feel able we would suggest making a formal complaint safeschoolsallianceuk.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/How-to-complain-to-your-childs-school.pdf and also writing to DfE and Ofsted setting out your concerns. We would also suggest raising this with your MP.

We are enclosing a piece on no outsiders from Transgender Trend www.transgendertrend.com/no-outsiders-queering-primary-classroom/ as can be seen from the research from 2006, this is very clearly a political project.

The school do need to understand that Andrew Moffat sits very firmly on one side of a very contentious political debate. As a school they need to make their own decisions on how they are going to challenge gender stereotypes and teach about the Equality Act. These decisions must be made in the best interests of the children in their care and in collaboration with the community that they serve.

We hope that’s some help.

Kind regards

I think Safe Schools point about sitting on one side of a contentious debate is very useful here. Schools have to be politically neutral. By using posters from one side they are not being. By saying it is not representing the Equality Act they then have to consider what it does represent and that it is political. they can't use the Equality Act now to say it is not poltiical so you've got them. It takes a stance on a contenciosu debate. Ask them that in stages - do you agree the debate is contenious? Bound to say yes. Well - how does this poster address both sides? Ask them to take it down or balance it with something from transgender trend or Sex Matters? Also ask them how they balance the teaching of the resources from this orgnsiation with resources from the other side of the debate. Ask to see resources that show both sides of the debate. Put in writing to the head that the deputy has acknowledged the debate is contenscious but can't or won't show how the school is remaining politically neutral. Ask what processes are in palce to ensure that the school is not politically biased.

And do start copying in the school governors. Tell them you are concerned about the misrepresentation of the equality act, safe-guarding and the political bias and that you are sending on copies of your correspondence so they are aware. Send it to more than one governor in case the the chair is also captured and just sits on your letter. Ask them when ofsted are due next? (concentrate their minds)

You could also contact the journalist Jill Foster who writes on this stuff in schools - she might be able to put you in contact with a journalist in your area or offer advice.

twitter.com/JournalistJill has her details in the bio.

This twitter poster was also really helpful to me when I was attenting a meeting about the teaching of this stuff - she was very good on the nature of the resources produced by these different companies which might give you some useful quotes. twitter.com/STILLTish

If your MP is no good try the local councillors. Maybe after the next exchange of inevitably useless letters from the DHead you could then ask for a meeting with the head, a governor and a supportively local councillor to address the problem of political bias in the school (that should make them sit up a bit). Get any refusal in writing. A school catchment area is likely to have more than one councillor you could try them all- I would start with a Conservative or an Independent.

Boiledbeetle · 27/01/2023 15:58

Vebrithien · 27/01/2023 15:54

How beautifully nuanced and well expressed.

Please help! Gender not sex on a school 'protected characteristics' poster, just spoken to the Head!

🍫🍰🍷

ARRRRRRGH

FUCKING SPECTACULAR

😁