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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Please help! Gender not sex on a school 'protected characteristics' poster, just spoken to the Head!

994 replies

Vebrithien · 06/01/2023 09:55

Good morning,

I started this thread before Christmas

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4684558-today-i-found-my-bravery?page=1

The overview is that my DD's primary school is displaying posters by No Outsiders, which are supposed to show the 9 protected characteristics, but shows gender, not sex.

The (male) deputy head I mentioned it to, before Christmas, has not got back to me. The posters are still there.

I summoned up my courage this morning, and spoke to the Headteacher. She seemed surprised, as I said I'd already mentioned it to one deputy head, and that I'd picked up on it due to my school expecting Ofsted, and reissuing our equality training.

The Head said that it was surprising, as No Outsiders were an organisation whose specialism was equalities.

I replied that the EA2010 says sex, not gender. I also mentioned that there were some concerning resources produced by them, including an assembly where a dad wants to offer violence to children who do not accept his trans child. (I know no more than this)

The Head is going to talk to her other deputy head, whose responsibility this is, and to try to put us in contact.

Where do I do from here?

Can any one help me with evidence? What particularly is dodgy about No Outsiders?

Is there anything that states that schools mustn't misrepresent the EA?

Is there any DofE (or whatever it's called now) guidance for schools on the resources they used or how they represent the EA?

And, how should I go about finding out if the school uses other No Outsiders resources?

Please help, I want as much evidence as I can.

Still shaking with adrenaline from speaking to the Head!

OP posts:
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13
EastLondonObserver · 06/01/2023 17:32

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 06/01/2023 17:31

Oh go away.

You are just being ineffably stupid now!

Why?

lifeturnsonadime · 06/01/2023 17:32

Because most trans women don’t assault anyone in prison

But some do rape women in women's prisons.

Most men don't assault or rape women either but they are kept out of women's prisons.

What's the difference?

DialSquare · 06/01/2023 17:32

But they are psychologically women so it’s humane to put them in women’s prisons

How can one be psychologically women?

So using your logic, transmen should be in the Male estate?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/01/2023 17:32

But they are psychologically women so it’s humane to put them in women’s prisons

Again, what constitutes a "trans woman", as a male?

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 06/01/2023 17:31

EastLondonObserver · 06/01/2023 17:29

But they are psychologically women so it’s humane to put them in women’s prisons

Oh go away.

You are just being ineffably stupid now!

EastLondonObserver · 06/01/2023 17:31

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/01/2023 17:31

you decry those who are redefining gender norms

How are they doing that, when they base their interpretation of what a woman is on regressive sex stereotypes?

Younger transsexuals increasingly don’t do that

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 06/01/2023 17:31

EastLondonObserver · 06/01/2023 17:28

people matter. it’s funny gender matters so much you’as you decry those who are redefining gender norms

Sex. Sex matters.

And gender norm? What's happening is that sexist stereotypes are being concreted in the name of gender ideology.

Wanna be a girl? Wear pink, giggle, tilt your head and get a job as a ln ambassador for Tampax!

EastLondonObserver · 06/01/2023 17:31

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 06/01/2023 17:29

Again that could all done in the male estate. There is zero reason for placing any male in the female estate.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Because most trans women don’t assault anyone in prison. So why layer on the added cruelty of putting them in a prison in which they don’t psychologically ‘fit’

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/01/2023 17:31

you decry those who are redefining gender norms

How are they doing that, when they base their interpretation of what a woman is on regressive sex stereotypes?

ArabellaScott · 06/01/2023 17:30

NecessaryScene · 06/01/2023 17:29

What's doubly amazing is that the claims being made in the non-existent data have moved on from "net win" to "win-win". The pace of progress here is astounding.

bigly wins

lifeturnsonadime · 06/01/2023 17:30

ArabellaScott · 06/01/2023 17:27

Make-up tips, lifeturnsonadime?

lol. That must be it!

Or have I forgotten that women must always benefit from the inclusion of males, we must feel happier knowing we've bowed down and included males. All the happy feelz we must have for the inclusion of the 'oppressed' minority.

ArabellaScott · 06/01/2023 17:30

'psychologically women' - what does that involve?

EastLondonObserver · 06/01/2023 17:29

DialSquare · 06/01/2023 17:28

Not if we get the risk assessment right.

risk assessment being a fundamental part of penal practice.

it can be a win-win.

So do that for Transwomen in the Male prisions then. No need to put them in female prisons.

But they are psychologically women so it’s humane to put them in women’s prisons

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 06/01/2023 17:29

EastLondonObserver · 06/01/2023 17:25

Not if we get the risk assessment right.

risk assessment being a fundamental part of penal practice.

it can be a win-win.

Again that could all done in the male estate. There is zero reason for placing any male in the female estate.

Why is that so hard to understand?

NecessaryScene · 06/01/2023 17:29

What's doubly amazing is that the claims being made in the non-existent data have moved on from "net win" to "win-win". The pace of progress here is astounding.

EastLondonObserver · 06/01/2023 17:28

ClitoralViolence · 06/01/2023 17:25

Do women not count as people in your "reality" then? Because you've proved beyond a doubt that you don't give a shiny shit about them.

people matter. it’s funny gender matters so much you’as you decry those who are redefining gender norms

DialSquare · 06/01/2023 17:28

Not if we get the risk assessment right.

risk assessment being a fundamental part of penal practice.

it can be a win-win.

So do that for Transwomen in the Male prisions then. No need to put them in female prisons.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/01/2023 17:28

No it can only be a win-win if women stand to benefit from males in single sex prisons.

We were assured that there was data about this, but sadly none has materialised!

ArabellaScott · 06/01/2023 17:27

Make-up tips, lifeturnsonadime?

lifeturnsonadime · 06/01/2023 17:27

it can be a win-win.

No it can only be a win-win if women stand to benefit from males in single sex prisons.

Even if, and it's highly doubtful, women could be kept physically safe, how do they benefit from the inclusion of males?

ArabellaScott · 06/01/2023 17:26

it can be a win-win.

Certainly from the male point of view, yes.

EastLondonObserver · 06/01/2023 17:25

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 06/01/2023 17:13

Less assault of transwomen in male prisons.

More sexual assaults and rape or women in female prisons.

Think....

Not if we get the risk assessment right.

risk assessment being a fundamental part of penal practice.

it can be a win-win.

ArabellaScott · 06/01/2023 17:25

Genuine question - why do you think lesbians are over represented in ‘anti-trans’ circles?

Why don't you ask the lesbians when they stopped beating their wives while you're at it.

ClitoralViolence · 06/01/2023 17:25

EastLondonObserver · 06/01/2023 16:12

I care about people. And all the evidence suggests there is a tiny ‘threat’ to women and a net reduction in overall assaults when trans women are allowed in women only spaces.

Do women not count as people in your "reality" then? Because you've proved beyond a doubt that you don't give a shiny shit about them.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/01/2023 17:21

Genuine question - why do you think lesbians are over represented in ‘anti-trans’ circles?

I don't think they are, are they? They are well represented in women's rights groups and radical feminist circles though, because their focus is on the female experience.