Women's rights general conversations

I guess some blokes need the emotional attachment for it to be more than a surrogate wank

I'v never admitted this before, but I've used the services of sex workers twice

Both times I was totally disinterested in actual sex when push came to shove (as it were) and ended up just chatting and sharing a few drinks for the evening, which was quite pleasant; one gave me a kiss as I waited with her for her taxi when it turned up

I cannot get my head around how any man can pay for sex. OK, I can see an obvious subset of men being fine with it but it’s disgustingly common and comes up all the time on the relationships board. How on earth can you enjoy doing that to someone when you know full well they don’t want it. I agree that consent cannot be bought and all men who use these ‘services’ are rapists. Never mind a so-called justice system enabling it. The article made my blood boil.

Great idea for a thread. Can I just leave these here? I may come back for them.

Behave yourselves...you two...

And

That song from the Sound of Music, My Favourite Things popped up in my head, but the words had changed to 'These are a few of my transphobic things....'. So far I've got 'women with ribbons and women with stickers'.

It’s actually worse than it says on the tin as a 22 year old prostitute was murdered by a man who was in prison for killing his girlfriend. Apparently murderers and sex offenders need a release for their pent up need to rape. In the article there are quotes referring to a man’s ‘right’ to sex.

The link is about Germany, Elsie, where prostitution is 'more' legal than in the UK, AIUI. But yeah, all the rest.

Joining. Great thread OP!

Do I need to click on that link or did they do exactly as it says on the tin?

I've been pondering the prostitution issue. I really want everyone who speaks of prostitution as "sex work" to be asked "please tell us how many times you have used sex workers, in which countries, and how many family members (immediate plus cousins/aunts/nieces) you have who work as sex workers".

I suspect not many politicians would feel comfortable answering that.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4692645-natacha-kennedy-for-open-democracy-ha-anti-trans-activists-are-using-mirror-propaganda-heres-how-to-spot-it

was the thread I meant. Hopefully.

And then women lost the broad support of 'liberal', Guardianista Left, who a abandoned them in favour of a trendier cause? Which didn't require them to examine their own prejudices?

Exactly!

Thanks @BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn I'm glad it's not just me. As one placard summed it up at a match: "Can't believe I have to fight this shit all over again."

@BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn this is the thread I was referring to www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4692350-convicted-rapists-given-access-to-brothels-as-rehabilitation-therapy?page=1

... there was still a way to go but progress seemed not merely to be happening but inevitable. And then somehow it all went wrong.

And then women lost the broad support of 'liberal', Guardianista Left, who a abandoned them in favour of a trendier cause? Which didn't require them to examine their own prejudices?

Sorry, my laptop died, and I'm not very good at this on my mobe.

Could I ask that recommendations for other threads come with links, please? Then I can open then in background tabs instead of either forgetting what I was going to look up or losing my place in this thread.

Thanks for the link @BlackRookInRainyWeather

The Zoe question, of course, was not 'what if it were your sister?'.

@MissLawls I'm a tail-end Xer but I know what you mean. My very first 'thing I want to be when I grow up' was a suffragette, and I was honestly a little disappointed to discover that I couldn't be because women already had the vote. And for quite a while I did think there was very little left to fight for. Partly that was the innocence and ignorance of youth, but partly it really was improving - women started to outnumber men in vet medicine courses and then human medicine courses, men's golf and cricket clubs were pried open, the pay gap was shrinking, male guarantors for finance were a thing of the past (at least in the UK - I gather from the impeccable academic source of Sex & the City that it lingered on in the US), sexist dress codes were being toppled, parliamentary hours were being reviewed to work better for women ... there was still a way to go but progress seemed not merely to be happening but inevitable. And then somehow it all went wrong.

Likewise the 'mirror propaganda' thread! And I've found Open Democracy a good source in the past, too.

@Kucingsparkles That prostitution for prisoners thread left me speechless, utterly dumbfounded. Why isn't more being made of this? It's chilling.

Yes, I felt Zoe Williams did something like that to Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie the other day- pushing her on ‘what about if it were your brother’ kind of nonsense.

Yes, I felt that summed up some of my feelings about pronouns- it’s not enough that a person wants to view himself or herself in a particular way, but that we all have to go along with it. If only the world would see me as I see myself, kind of thing.

A great phrase from the Joan Smith link - “the problem at the heart of self-identification, which is that it requires so little of the individual — but so much of everyone else.”

Joan Smith is a great voice on these issues.

She's wonderful.

I've been a feminist since I was 16 when in 1972 I read The Female Eunuch. I honestly thought, as idealistic teenagers are wont to do, that it will all be so much better when I got older! That women would get equal rights because it seemed such an obvious and necessary thing to happen. Much like getting the vote, In 1972 we didn't have equal pay nor yet an anti discrimination law. Women had to get a guarantor if they wanted to take out a credit agreement and women getting mortgages on their own was very rare.

But it feels to me we're going backwards. I know boomers like myself get a lot of stick but truly it was great to be young then. So much hope and optimism for the future. I find it very hard to feel anything but pessimism now and that isn't just an age thing. I don't see our young people rising up and going, oi! No! Up with this we will not put! Instead they seem to meekly accept it and do what they're told. Where is the rebellion, where!? Don't they know that if loads of people are saying you should speak a certain way, believe a certain thing, that the right response is no!? What you rebelling against? What you got?