Manchester Laces Football Club Match Forfeit

Sorry, I mean, a recreational female sports team obviously.

Play mixed sex or open. Not female.

And if more mixed sex or open teams need to be started, now is the time to do this.

If a female decides to take testosterone, why should they be allowed in even a recreational sports team?

Yes. Having read that statement brings the entire situation out into the light.

Helen Hardy seems to be reading a different memo to the other extremists who want males to play sports in female categories. She is now saying case by case is flawed and she doesn’t want her player to be assessed as an individual.

This is quite something.

What is the deal for females taking testosterone though? Clearly should not be allowed in elite female teams. Recreationally though they should have somewhere they fit in to play surely? There must be many many people taking medication that is essentially a doping agent that play recreationally.

Well. It’s almost like making choices about “gender” has consequences

I read the tweets around this and it really seems to be some obfuscation around this player or this situation is showing just how meaningless words and documentation has become.

The original tweeter, Helen Hardy, assured people that ‘They’re (the player) biologically female’

The issue is that phrase could mean anything. I have yet to see Helen Hardy confirm the player’s birth sex. Maybe Helen does not know this for certain?

This is going to be a significant case either way.

twitter.com/helenfootball/status/1587122786325102594?s=46&t=7V6yuqJ4s_27IGsLiUlghw

My impression from the (wilfully obscure) article is that it's a female player whom the FA suspect is on testosterone.

Is it really the case that a male person with a GRC can't play in the men's division?

Changing the Men's division to be 'open' and reserving the Women's division to be for people who have never undergone male puberty seems like the obvious answer.

The FA should read FINA's analysis!

Everyone should be able to play. Being fully inclusive does not however mean you get to play where you choose without having to meet any eligibility criteria.

If there is nowhere this person can play then there would be an issue here. I highly highly doubt that is the case.

Do they need to change the male category to open ?

A male should never play in the womans game no matter how he identifies.

A transman can compete in womans game if not taking hormones.

They claim to be fully inclusive, but they’re not. If they were, then they let anyone play - male or female. So they are excluding males, just not the ones who claim to be female.

Why does having an F in their documents mean they are ineligible to play in the men's team?

So what they really want is for people to self ID into any team of their choosing?

OK then I choose to play in the under 12 girls team.

Just glanced at article - should have done that before I commented 🤣

It says they have a female birth certificate. Now we know that is meaningless really. Although I do suspect this may be a female who may be taking hormones that means they may have a competitive advantage.

I'm not sure what the difference is between a woman and a 'non binary' woman. Unless the non binary person is taking hormones.

Both will probably be easily recognised as female.

Of course, if it was a 'non binary' man then they would have been easily recognisable as a man.

You can't have non binary on a birth certificate.

Exactly, this is either an MTF female player, in which case "non binary" status is completely meaningless and could have just not been declared at all, or an MTF who shouldn't be playing in women's football.

Ugh sorry that makes no sense, a rogue MTF crept into my sentence. I meant this is either a female player or an MTF trans one.

And they would have a GRC if MTF to get an opposite sex birth certificate so I assume this person is female. There is no reason for their special identity to be declared, it's of zero relevance to the game. If they suspect doping then they can test for that surely?

"When somebody goes on to do testosterone tests or hormone tests with the FA there is no pass mark. It goes off to an individual who then looks through that paperwork, that information, and makes a decision based on that person. So it's essentially like me going into a maths test and saying what's the pass grade and then saying an independent person will decide if you've passed or failed."

Funnily enough, there's normal ranges for hormones with male testosterone levels being no where near female (I think there's very rare exceptions where women have specific cancers or are doping).

They aren't guessing, ridiculous people.

Exactly, this is either an MTF female player, in which case "non binary" status is completely meaningless and could have just not been declared at all, or an MTF who shouldn't be playing in women's football.

So changing the sex markers on offical documents to create a legal fiction has consequences after all....

Oh come on, like there would be a problem with them on a male team. No one checks your passport before playing. People have eyes transactivists. Shock news.

Get out of women's sports. It's cheating.