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Original poster

They have turned the toilets at my daughter's school mixed sex

114 replies

dumpling23 · 06/09/2022 23:30

Yup - that's it really. On a local women's rights group I'm on, I've heard that another school in our town has also done just the same thing. I'll be writing to complain. I imagine others who look at this forum might hear that the the same change has been introduced at their children's school over the next few days, so here is a copy of my letter. If anybody else is in this situation, feel free to use/adapt this template. Corrections also welcome.

I am writing to register my concerns about the changes to the ** School toilets that have been reported to me by my child. I have been informed that the single sex provision at the English Block and the Canteen Corridor have been converted into mixed sex provision, with further conversions underway. In this letter I am requesting further information in order to better understand the situation, as the only information I have received at present comes from a child.

I will state at the outset that I consider removing single-sex toilet provision and replacing it with mixed-sex provision, as appears to be the case here, to be detrimental to female pupils. It also risks breaking the law. The guidance in the Schools Premises Regulations (2012) is very clear. It states that schools must provide separate sex provision for children over eight. In June 2018, the Department of Education reissued guidance from the Department of Education on the responsibilities of school in relation to ‘gender separation’. Paragraph 13 clearly states:

It is permissible for toilet and boarding accommodation facilities to be separate as they are captured under existing statutory exceptions. Separate toilet and washing facilities must be provided for boys and girls aged 8 years and over pursuant to Regulation 4 of the School Premises (England) Regulations 2012, which falls within the exemption provided for in Schedule 22 of the Equality Act 2010.

Furthermore, as you will no doubt have noticed, the Attorney General, Suella Braverman provided further guidance to schools about toilets in her speech of 10 August 2022. She said: ‘Further, in law, there is a duty to provide separate single sex toilets, a breach of which would be unlawful under the School premises (England) Regulations 2012 and the Education (Independent School Standards) Regulations 2014.

In order that I can better understand the School’s actions and assess how it fits within the UK’s legal framework, I would be grateful if you could provide answers to the following questions:

  1. What is the toilet provision in the school and is it in line with the School Premises Regulations (2012) as outlined in the Department of Education guidance?
  2. Did the school consult with students, staff and parents about the proposed change?
  3. Did the school carry out an impact assessment (especially in relation to the protected characteristics of sex and religion) on the change as is required under the Equality Act?

If the school did carry out a consultation exercise and Impact Assessment, I would be grateful if you could share the documentation around these processes.

I look forward to hearing from you at your earliest convenience.

OP posts:
vroom321 · 13/09/2022 12:19

My daughters hate using the school toilets as it is.

I used to volunteer at the school 4/5 years ago and the staff toilets are mixed. I was anxious washing my hands next to a teacher never mind a male one.

Sazzasez · 13/09/2022 12:12

dumpling23 · 13/09/2022 08:37

Well - I'm back. Thank you all for your input - some of you pointed out sites I could look at and made great suggestions, so I slightly improved the letter and sent it off last week.
To clarify: the three main toilet blocks have all been converted. There are a few random single-sex toilets left, but it's a very large campus, so access to single-sex toilets is considerably diminished for all girls. My own daughter is holding off going to the toilet all day because she is usually nowhere near a girls toilet. She tells me that the school was 'given' the money and they were all told to be grateful. I presume it came from the Academy trust they are a part of. I don't really know.
At the moment there is not much to update. I sent the letter to the Head, the Governors, and the CEO of the Trust. The school has invited me in to view the toilets. I've indicated that this won't be necessary as it is already clear that the single-sex provision has been replaced by mixed sex provision and that this contravenes a number of UK statutes - and (in not so many words) that me coming to view the toilets isn't going to magically transform the toilets into something that complies with the law! (Or maybe, if I come and see them, the law will just magically change so that the toilets become legal??? I don't know!)
Anyway, I've indicated that I'm content to wait for a written response and that's pretty much where we are.
I'll update as we go. Silence ≠ storm in a teacup or that problem is/was non-existent. It just means: no news. If anybody else is in the same situation or knows anybody who has been do get in touch. Information about parents in this situation who managed to restore single-sex provision to their schools would be especially welcome. Thanks to you all again.

Many thanks for the update. Well done.

Will be watching with interest.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 13/09/2022 10:37

Thanks for the update dumpling23. The additional questions I'd be asking the school is whether they've genuinely consulted the girls? And if so, what were the (unedited) responses. I'd also ask as a parent for a guarantee that their changing rooms are not mixed sex and take a closer look at their SRE & equality policies? Schools that prioritise gender woowoo over safeguarding girls from assault are normally the ones to wedge boys into girls changing rooms because "trans etc....."

We all know that girls and women don't choose to share toilets / changing rooms with males and until the sticky hands of the trans lobby groups are prised away from education, it's only parents who are in a position to challenge this on behalf of our daughters.

DisforDarkChocolate · 13/09/2022 08:50

I think it may be useful for you to send your letter etc to your local MP, Cllrs and the local papers.

BuffaloCauliflower · 13/09/2022 08:50

Well done OP, the point about big campuses and actual access to single sex toilets is an important one. I hope you get a proper response soon.

Original poster
dumpling23 · 13/09/2022 08:37

Well - I'm back. Thank you all for your input - some of you pointed out sites I could look at and made great suggestions, so I slightly improved the letter and sent it off last week.
To clarify: the three main toilet blocks have all been converted. There are a few random single-sex toilets left, but it's a very large campus, so access to single-sex toilets is considerably diminished for all girls. My own daughter is holding off going to the toilet all day because she is usually nowhere near a girls toilet. She tells me that the school was 'given' the money and they were all told to be grateful. I presume it came from the Academy trust they are a part of. I don't really know.
At the moment there is not much to update. I sent the letter to the Head, the Governors, and the CEO of the Trust. The school has invited me in to view the toilets. I've indicated that this won't be necessary as it is already clear that the single-sex provision has been replaced by mixed sex provision and that this contravenes a number of UK statutes - and (in not so many words) that me coming to view the toilets isn't going to magically transform the toilets into something that complies with the law! (Or maybe, if I come and see them, the law will just magically change so that the toilets become legal??? I don't know!)
Anyway, I've indicated that I'm content to wait for a written response and that's pretty much where we are.
I'll update as we go. Silence ≠ storm in a teacup or that problem is/was non-existent. It just means: no news. If anybody else is in the same situation or knows anybody who has been do get in touch. Information about parents in this situation who managed to restore single-sex provision to their schools would be especially welcome. Thanks to you all again.

OP posts:
LibbyOTV · 12/09/2022 20:54

Grrrrrr. not ok. NOT OK. especially when rates of sexual harassment in schools is higher than it's EVER been. There's been recent reports about this.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 12/09/2022 20:33

gluteustothemaximus Re the research about behaviour, when I last looked, that allegation was being made by .... wait for it..... companies who install toilets in schools!

Girls being used in schools to tackle boy's poor behaviour is a well known phenomenon and school staff are meant to have a more sophisticated approach to behaviour problems.

Bored - there have been numerous threads on here for years about the removal of single sex facilities in schools. Too many schools have followed the Stonewall, Gendered Intelligence, Global Butterflies etc demands and made their facilities mixed sex despite the risks to girls and the legal position.

Here are a few found via search but there are lots more if you trouble to research.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4012590-Mixed-sex-toilets-at-primary-school

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4215600-Ireland-will-no-longer-be-providing-single-sex-toilets-in-primary-and-secondary-schools

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4348285-primary-school-u-turn-on-mixed-sex-toilets

gluteustothemaximus · 12/09/2022 19:54

Our secondary school has just installed two huge mixed sexed toilets.

There are no single sex provisions on that side of the school (you have to go over to the other side - it's a massive site).

So it is happening.

The girls are not happy.

They are being gaslit as to why they must accept this. It is unbelievable that this is happening.

They had two perfectly good spots and a disabled toilet. All we needed to do was one boys toilet, one girls toilet and the disabled toilet could be unisex.

Instead, we have two large unisex areas, and the girls still queuing up for the unisex disabled locked cubicle toilet.

In one breath with our safeguarding training, we were told that we were concentrating on the high levels of violence and sexual harassment towards females on the back of the national ofsted report. Then we were told about the new mixed sex toilets, and THEN told that it was a great idea and it was proven to IMPROVE behaviour. Let me guess, the boys behaviour.

Once again girls stepping in to help the boys behave.

We have over 900 girls in the school, around 500 boys and 2 trans.

But we get the unisex toilets at the expense of 900 girls who will at some point, be on their periods.

Nice one lefties.

ImherewithBoudica · 12/09/2022 19:43

You mean like if a woman was being denied rape support it would be all over the papers and she wouldn't be dealing with a ton of harassment and if a very well known charity was taking another to court for basically thinking homosexuality is ok that would be all over the press too?

Wow. The things I'm imagining! From behind my Pitchfork.

This stuff is intentionally avoided like the plague by the media. As any fule know.

titchy · 12/09/2022 19:41

Boredad you forget there are a large number of parents on MN - many have indeed reported that their children's school have changed all toilets to mixed sex (secondary age so reasonably reliable). So it is in fact very possible. particularly if you live in Brighton

Perhaps wait and see what OP comes back with before pronouncing that it never happens eh?

Boreded · 12/09/2022 19:34

Sazzasez · 12/09/2022 19:29

I would guess that OP has not been back because she’s waiting for the response from the school.

Until then, @Boreded ’s speculation is just that: speculation.

Since it would breach safety regs, I would suggest that op having a dramatic rant days ago, would be the most likely to be speculative.

prepared to be proven wrong (I won’t be)

too many on this site immediate grab the pitchforks before using their brains…if this situation were real it would already have been picked up by the news outlets as it is quite sensationalist, and other parents would have gone to their local papers already.

please can everyone use their brains before replying :)

Sazzasez · 12/09/2022 19:29

I would guess that OP has not been back because she’s waiting for the response from the school.

Until then, @Boreded ’s speculation is just that: speculation.

ImherewithBoudica · 12/09/2022 17:09

Boreded · 11/09/2022 23:10

Please read what I’m saying.

there will be three options not one. All male, all female, and unisex.

ffs we all know that there isn’t going to be a total removal of female toilets, stop getting so worked up over something that isn’t going to happen.

Notice how OP hasn’t been back? It’s because what she thought was happening isn’t actually happening…if it was she would be here telling the world.

this is an additional provision to allow those who are not confident in their bio gender to use a neutral/unisex toilet rather than the wrong bio gender and cause upset for those of that gender, or the right bio gender and be uncomfortable.

THREE toilet options are what is happening here, anyone who believes that they are removing single gender toilets from this school are delusional

Show quote history

Ooh has reality jumped track again and now it's a case that third spaces were the plan all along, are always provided, have always been provided, we have always been at war with eastasia, and everyone will respect male only and female only spaces and use the third space if they prefer? And we just imagined all the othering complaints and refusals and stuff as part of some group delusion? And no student or employee in a public place will be walking long distances to try and find an accessible loo because that never happens?

Cool Smile

Thanks, it gets hard to keep up with.

Acunningruse · 12/09/2022 12:19

Excellent letter, placemarking as I fear I will also need it soon.

JamSandle · 12/09/2022 12:17

I would not be comfortable with this. Can you get a petition going for parents who feel similarly, which I imagine would be virtually all?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 12/09/2022 12:13

If you work in a school then it's a massive issue if the toilets in one block are converted into mixed sex. It means girls needing a quick toilet visit between lessons have to travel further, be late for their next lesson etc. Many secondary schools have large sites and this just (yet again) makes the lives of girls in schools more difficult and potentially hazardous.

Boreded · 11/09/2022 23:12

ScrollingLeaves · 11/09/2022 19:54

Boreded · 07/09/2022 03:50
If they have only changed one then what’s the problem?

your daughter can still use another girls only restroom, and a trans, or nb, or whatever child can go into the mixed bathroom without any shame or worry.

there should be three bathroom options as it will cater for all then. Male, female, and mixed seems sensible

What about male lavatories, female ones and a separate, neutral, enclosed room for any trans or non-binary ?

This is what I’m saying is happening. 3 options. But the posters on this thread have their pitchforks out for the school without actually bothering to realise that there is no way on earth that a school would remove single sex toilets unless to replace them with full floor to ceiling self enclosed singular toilets.

people just seem to prefer to lose their shit first and use their brains second (not you, I mean pps and op)

Boreded · 11/09/2022 23:10

hatsofftoyouall · 10/09/2022 08:15

and it will be a reasonable provision designed to protect all children

No it doesn't.

Latest KCSIE 2022 has a significant amount about how to plan to safeguard child on child abuse, including sexual abuse, and in primary too.

The entire point of the existence of single sex toilets is to provide privacy for females and protection from males and sexual assault.

KCSIE includes any form of sexist language, behaviour, upskirting, comments, intimidation, sexist or sexual jokes etc. it's all part of the same issue of VAWAG.

Please read what I’m saying.

there will be three options not one. All male, all female, and unisex.

ffs we all know that there isn’t going to be a total removal of female toilets, stop getting so worked up over something that isn’t going to happen.

Notice how OP hasn’t been back? It’s because what she thought was happening isn’t actually happening…if it was she would be here telling the world.

this is an additional provision to allow those who are not confident in their bio gender to use a neutral/unisex toilet rather than the wrong bio gender and cause upset for those of that gender, or the right bio gender and be uncomfortable.

THREE toilet options are what is happening here, anyone who believes that they are removing single gender toilets from this school are delusional

ScrollingLeaves · 11/09/2022 19:55

Well done OP for your letter which is clear and puts the points across well.

ScrollingLeaves · 11/09/2022 19:54

Boreded · 07/09/2022 03:50
If they have only changed one then what’s the problem?

your daughter can still use another girls only restroom, and a trans, or nb, or whatever child can go into the mixed bathroom without any shame or worry.

there should be three bathroom options as it will cater for all then. Male, female, and mixed seems sensible

What about male lavatories, female ones and a separate, neutral, enclosed room for any trans or non-binary ?

hatsofftoyouall · 10/09/2022 08:15

and it will be a reasonable provision designed to protect all children

No it doesn't.

Latest KCSIE 2022 has a significant amount about how to plan to safeguard child on child abuse, including sexual abuse, and in primary too.

The entire point of the existence of single sex toilets is to provide privacy for females and protection from males and sexual assault.

KCSIE includes any form of sexist language, behaviour, upskirting, comments, intimidation, sexist or sexual jokes etc. it's all part of the same issue of VAWAG.

Boreded · 09/09/2022 20:13

Op won’t come back because it will all be a drama that has been made because of second hand info from a child, and it will be a reasonable provision designed to protect all children

InTheResistance · 08/09/2022 22:57

Excellent letter OP, placemarking in case I need to come back to it.

ClumpingBambooIsALie · 08/09/2022 22:43

Boreded, OP explicitly describes single sex provision being replaced with mixed sex provision. Do you think she's lying?

It sounds like a student who suddenly needs to go to the loo, change her tampon, fix her hijab, rearrange her bra, adjust her prosthetic leg, or otherwise use the loos, and is in the English block or near the canteen, is going to have to either use a mixed-sex facility, or walk elsewhere on school grounds to get to single-sex provision, taking extra time she may not have, and risking embarrassment. It also seems that the single-sex provision elsewhere is being phased out in future.

I wouldn't have any problem at all with additional mixed-sex provision being available, for trans students or just those who need the facilities but don't require single-sex provision, as long as that mixed-sex provision meets the requirements for that. But space would have to be taken from somewhere, for that additional mixed-sex provision.

A problem with replacing single-sex provision with mixed-sex provision is that in order to meet requirements, it takes up more space per toilet than general girls' and boys' loos, and girls who want to do things that they could previously do in the communal area of the girls' loos will instead be taking up a cubicle (and the same for boys, presumably, though I'd imagine less so). It also removes urinal provision, which is efficient and compact. So overall, providing only compliant mixed-sex toilets means toilet provision is inevitably reduced compared to having boys' and girls' loos. This is particularly difficult on girls, who have more frequent reason to use the toilets. If requirements aren't met, there's insufficient privacy and dignity for students — again, particularly difficult on girls but not great for boys either.