How to square the circle of my trans sceptism and my trans friend?

And that last post was agreeing with you @littleburn it wasn't very clear!

I actually think the aggressive trans lobby have made life so much more difficult for trans people.

You do know that there are many trans people who have 'gc' views, OP, don't you?

You're not going to get much of a discussion going if posts saying what individuals who don't believe in trans ideology but have trans family members do, get their posts deleted for saying how they deal with it.

You'd think I'd said something like I scream in their faces!

It's my family members/friends choices and not my business, they are all well over the age of consent. I don't agree with them on gender but I agree that they feel the way they do.

Challenging other people's beliefs is counterproductive. I simply accept that is their belief, don't dismiss it out of hand, let them talk, and express sympathy with their position, acknowledging their feelings without agreeing with the reason they feel that way.

I find that works well in these situations.

I don't think they're a circle to be squared OP. Your friend is your friend - you can have trans friends without having to agree with some or any aspects gender ideology. Many trans people don't agree with gender ideology! Like the previous posters, I have no issue with trans people. I have a huge issue with gender ideology and its proponents, but they're by no means one and the same thing.

Nothing to square here.as your friend respects women's boundaries. The fact that they choose to present in a feminine manner is nobody's business but theirs.

Previous discussion on a similar theme but some differences:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4560114-cant-make-this-add-up

The way I feel is that I have no quarrel whatsoever with people who experience gender dysphoria and choose to present in a way that is stereotypically associated with the opposite sex.
My quarrel is with predatory men who piggyback on this issue to gain access to women's spaces. The men who would take sporting opportunities away from women. The policy of unquestioning affirmation and medical intervention on growing bodies.

Beautifully put. I feel very sorry for the millions of trans people who are perfectly nice and respectful. It is a shame to lump them in with the extremists and predators.

There has been trans people your whole life 🤷🏻‍♀️ they've just become disrespectful as a group recently.

I have no qualms with your nice friend 🙂

I don't think any feminist who is critical of gender ideology would have any issue with an adult going about their life making a choice to present radically differently, but use unisex facilities. They aren't forcing you to agree with an ideology, presumably? And presumably they haven't treated their ex and their children badly? Nor expected women to have to constantly validate their identity?

So crack on, there's nothing to square away here.

My issue has never ever been with individual people going about their business. Most people, in all walks of life, are basically regular, decent people.

My issue has always been that we can't legislate on the assumption that EVERYONE is basically decent! We need robust laws that don't have glaring great loopholes, ripe for abuse.

You can absolutely have a trans friend, and support trans people having all the exact same rights as anyone else (for example, it should be illegal to fire someone just because they're trans) whilst at the same time understanding that predators do exist, and that as a society we need measures in place to limit their access to children, women, and other vulnerable adults.

Surely people can live the life they want as long as they're not breaking the law or hurting anyone? I'd hope if someone I considered a friend transgendered, I would be supportive and embracing because they're still the same person I wanted to have as a friend. What sort of friend what I be if rejected them when they were at their most vulnerable?

I don't think you have to square anything. Your friend is your friend, you can support them while still disagreeing with parts of gender identity ideology.

I have nothing against trans people, however I very much disagree with the ideology. Just like I have friends and acquaintances who hold religious beliefs that I don't align with.

Sounds fine to me.

The way I feel is that I have no quarrel whatsoever with people who experience gender dysphoria and choose to present in a way that is stereotypically associated with the opposite sex.

My quarrel is with predatory men who piggyback on this issue to gain access to women's spaces. The men who would take sporting opportunities away from women. The policy of unquestioning affirmation and medical intervention on growing bodies.