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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

DQ Story Time kicked off in Bristol

194 replies

McDuffy · 29/07/2022 06:40

I'm going to wade into the comments...!

Protesters try to arrest drag queen Sab Samuel

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2ad0798c-0e9d-11ed-93cf-b011fa7fe86b?shareToken=3c528b6084adfbc7a3f1da805c2c7ee5

OP posts:
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6
MangyInseam · 31/07/2022 01:28

Abhannmor · 30/07/2022 12:57

If I had my life over I'd work in a library. Completely off topic I once found a copy of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion in the Hackney Central Library. I handed in the dreadful Antisemitic forgery and the assistant said ' oh yeah that should really be in the Reference library.' Said Reference library was a temple of learning. Lots of elderly men who read all the free newspapers everyday!

There was a big controversy here over Abigale Shrier's book, they tried to have it removed from the library. The fellow leading the attempt to remove it with the local Pride group said, on the radio, for people to hear, "it's no different than if the library had Mein Kampf.

I was vicariously mortified.

ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus · 31/07/2022 01:21

Igmum · 29/07/2022 07:05

Why is the Times saying the protesters were from right wing groups? What's wrong with safeguarding? Drag Queens are adult entertainment, reading to small children shouldn't be sexualised

Yes, I was surprised by the tone of the Times article. The protesters are shown as antivaxxers and rightwingers, though the 'rightwing groups' aren't named. And they are contrasted with another group who supported inclusive teaching.

So a highly sexualised parody of women is 'inclusive', but a disabled or stereotype-breaking role model isn't even considered.

The Times is usually better at this. It reads as if written by someone inexperienced.

NewPotatoSalad · 31/07/2022 01:07

Thats interesting, StillNotAGirl. Thank you

How did this guy get so influential with libraries and councils all over the UK? What is the reasoning?!

StillNotAGirl · 31/07/2022 00:46

DQST in the UK is essentially one dude who set up a ltd company. How has he got the library service and councils running around like this?

Info on companies house is weird, looks like company is being dissolved. Is there anyone who knows about company law able to explain why you’d get a compulsory strike off then go for a voluntary strike off after you’ve applied to stop the compulsory?
find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12675151/filing-history

NewPotatoSalad · 31/07/2022 00:22

How the fuck, in a time of deep austerity and economic crises, and particular focus here on library cutbacks - councils' money has found to implement:
More than 100 librarians attended the training earlier this month, on how to handle the fierce row with parents over a country-wide summer tour by Drag Queen Story Hour UK.

In the forum, held on July 20, librarians from across Britain shared “war game” strategies for dealing with “really distressing” drag criticism and being “bombarded by complaints letters”.

War game strategies???? Who's upping the ante here?!!

One speaker suggested the protesters could be fooled. They obviously think people are thick. Such arrogance.

We’ve always said pantomime dame because we don’t want protestors outside our building,” Ian Anstice, a librarian from Cheshire West and Chester, told the seminar.

So, Ian Anstice - you know the score and you're admitting that you're lying, and you know you're lying. You know you're pushing particular propaganda.

How about, councils save a lot of money, and time, and trouble, and a lot of opposition, if they just refrain altogether from Drag Queen Story Time?

I mean, seeing as it's now costing councils extra money both to stage DGST and to send staff on training courses to counter the opposition to something that was not even asked for in the first place.

DQS is not exactly an emergency service; and councils pushing DQST are now having to also finance training for librarians to counter parents' and residents' opposition to DQST.

Thelnebriati · 30/07/2022 23:53

''“What we’ve come up with is a rough guide to if you’re holding a controversial event – in our case it’s drag queens – we would say that the best thing is to involve your comms, involve equalities, councillors and the safeguarding teams from the start,” she said.
This includes a “statement from our safeguarding lead [officer] that says about how much they support what we’re doing”, while “hiding” negative comments on Facebook and not using Twitter”.
''Ms Ball said her library’s chief took the attitude of “template letter complaint, template letter response” and should report “anything abusive, offensive or aggressive” as hate speech.''

link is archived and readable at archive dot ph/ydFbf

Thelnebriati · 30/07/2022 23:50

Call drag queens ‘pantomime dames’ to fool protestors, librarians told
''Council librarians attend training in how to handle conflicts with parents over children’s story hours hosted by drag queens''
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/07/30/call-drag-queens-pantomime-dames-fool-protestors-librarians/

Nineteen19 · 30/07/2022 21:44

I've covered the word that could be problematic, hopefully the TRAs won't report it this time.

Nineteen19 · 30/07/2022 21:38

I don't understand why the picture of the women protesting had been removed. 🤷‍♀️

Nineteen19 · 30/07/2022 20:47

This reply has been deleted

We've removed this post as we have reason to believe there's some misrepresentation here.

Nineteen19 · 30/07/2022 20:22

Concerned parents protesting outside Welling library today.

DQ Story Time kicked off in Bristol
Musomama1 · 30/07/2022 19:35

cheekychatta · 30/07/2022 10:07

What is the difference between a drag Queen and a pantomime dame ?

The same difference as between a dancer and an erotic dancer (IE a stripper). One is for everyone, one is for adults only. Simples.

ScrollingLeaves · 30/07/2022 19:19

Samuel said that it was “unfortunate” the event had to be postponed but he would be back. “It wasn’t a riot but it wasn’t very nice,” he said. “It’s so wrong, so homophobic and so 1980s, it’s ridiculous.” The drag performer said that he recognised some of the protesters from Reading. “I genuinely believe these people are victims of a misinformation campaign, they need to be given the correct information since they distrust the core of society, I feel a bit for them, I pity them.

It isn’t homophobic, and it is hardly 1980s.
It is very much a trans ideology era event of the last five or so years.

Abhannmor · 30/07/2022 12:57

MangyInseam · 29/07/2022 13:42

I work in a public library. The one I used to had a DQST.

I think it's fair to say that there is a ton of tokenism, of all kinds, in libraries now.

Public libraries are of course meant to be accessible to all people and to support their interests and needs in terms of information access. They also have a strong mandate to be politically neutral and to maintain balance in their collections as far as reflecting all public views.

But a combination of political pressure and the fact that the majority of people working in libraries see themselves as politically progressive means that being inclusive has largely been interpreted as being a venue to push id pol, in much the same way schools have been.

It's a fine line, but behind the scenes I think it's pretty clear that this goes beyond just trying to respond to the community. Just as an example, the library I used to work at was very strongly taking that approach. When directed at the political level to concentrate programming on diversity, they came out with a list of 10 children's authors for branches to invite. All ticked some diversity box - not including being a woman in that - none were white. This is a region which is over 90% white.

As you might imagine, collection diversity was also poor - there was certainly a concentration on what were seen as marginalized voices, a full third of the YA books were queer oriented. But if you wanted to have political diversity in the collection you would not find it. (They were terrified about the possibility of having certain books on the shelves that people might be upset about.)

There are groups that don't feel all that included in the library any more because it is so clearly oriented to a particular progressive political view. When it comes down to it, you can't have an institution that is really inclusive - in the sense of being politically neutral - and also so committed to being a vehicle for social change, even what it sees as positive social change.

If I had my life over I'd work in a library. Completely off topic I once found a copy of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion in the Hackney Central Library. I handed in the dreadful Antisemitic forgery and the assistant said ' oh yeah that should really be in the Reference library.' Said Reference library was a temple of learning. Lots of elderly men who read all the free newspapers everyday!

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 30/07/2022 10:09

cheekychatta · 30/07/2022 10:07

What is the difference between a drag Queen and a pantomime dame ?

Ask a drag queen. Maybe he'll tell you, before he reports you for a homophobic hate crime.

cheekychatta · 30/07/2022 10:07

What is the difference between a drag Queen and a pantomime dame ?

Penguintears · 29/07/2022 20:23

MrsWooster · 29/07/2022 14:45

It’s not inclusive of gay men, who’ve fought for years the idea that gay = effeminate.
It’s certainly not inclusive of women, since DQs aren’t women and their presentation is misogynistic caricature.
At best, it’s inclusive of drag queens.
At worst it’s inclusive of men who refuse to acknowledge boundaries and safeguarding.

What could possibly go wrong?

This is such a good post. I must remember these points!

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 29/07/2022 20:01

I suspect drag queens still regard themselves as something different from pantomime dames. Something more sophisticated than an Ugly Sister in a performance of Cinderella.

Has anyone told drag queens they're pantomime dames? People just say it about them in their absence to show support of drag...

MangyInseam · 29/07/2022 19:37

GoodThinkingMax · 29/07/2022 18:49

Panto Dames, Justin in Gigglebiz… performers.

Actors who play pantomime dames are very different from drag queens. The Dames I know say they are a “bloke in a frock.”

Drag queens used to think that too, from what I remember. They didn't claim to be transsexuals or even transvestites.

JosephineGH · 29/07/2022 19:34

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GoodThinkingMax · 29/07/2022 19:31

cheekychatta · 29/07/2022 15:05

So no more pantomimes dames then ?

Just to reiterate: pantomime Danes are not drag queens

McDuffy · 29/07/2022 19:26

Ooh my first deletion and I've been on FWR almost four years. I see AGP references still aren't allowed <sigh>
I haven't had an email, does that mean it's not a strike? I never even had a break time detention at school so getting more badly behaved as I get older Grin

OP posts:
SolasAnla · 29/07/2022 18:50

MangyInseam I limited the responsibilty to the people who could choose to make a direct choice.

I think that it is fairer to ask the ones who make the decisions around acts (gay or not male or not) to step up, if they were then it becomes a wider community responsibilty for club users etc to support .

I think one only has to look at how the LGB Alliance was attacked over the monkey pox and only now that it is a very visable problem have prick news decided to give much the same warnings. And how Stonewall was happy to be transphobic when their staff tweeted
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4599781-stonewall-tweet-booboo

GoodThinkingMax · 29/07/2022 18:49

Panto Dames, Justin in Gigglebiz… performers.

Actors who play pantomime dames are very different from drag queens. The Dames I know say they are a “bloke in a frock.”

McDuffy · 29/07/2022 18:43

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