Rishi on Women’s Rights

I just can't let go of this deep suspicion that demonstrating a basic grip on reality free of major cognitive dissonance is a necessary indicator of competence to deal with the cost of living crisis.

And that a party as mad as a box of frogs is not likely to have useful answers on anything much.

@Artichokeleaves

But don’t you care at all about the cost of living?!

😒

Oh god. I don't want to have to vote Tory at the next election. I wish labour would get their act together.

I cannot understand the whole 'ok, so they have no grip on reality, they hate women, they're fundamentally misogynistic, homophobic, think safeguarding of children should be conditional on not upsetting male people, think it's a good thing for children to be allowed to consent to surgery that may leave them lifelong harms and regret, and are gaslighting on a truly immense scale about basic facts, BUT they might have other good policies to run the country!'

Er....

It's not a fringe issue.

If you are voting for a party who thinks it is fine and just to subordinate ANY group, never mind half the human race, on the basis of a particular characteristic, while lying about it, and who believe that personal realities and alternative facts matter over truth? Who do not believe in democracy and equality, but primacy of their particular (current, fashionable) pets? And are setting out to create division and anger and conflict between groups in society?

You are voting for a party that is going nowhere good fast and is fundamentally fucked up.

The truly stupid following this ideology seem to have forgotten the long history of 'it's fine to subordinate and dehumanise THEM so long as you're nice to my mates'. They would tell you they spit upon the memory of slavery, while embracing the exact same attitude, that there are characteristics that make some better and worthier and more deserving of rights and other characteristics that make it ok to remove rights and subordinate and treat as lesser. They don't even realise they are creating a society in which they have nothing more than hope that they don't come to be one of the targeted, unfashionable groups.

The left are in all forms now unethical and immoral in ways that are heading somewhere far, far uglier and more harmful than mere drunken lies and parties and incompetence and debauchery.

@PutinSmellsPassItOn bur supporting women is meaningless if it includes men.

It's utterly depressing. Only Tories are willing to acknowledge this? Totally fucked up. I'll be looking at our locals very closely at the next election. Tory incumbent has, since a specific aide left his office, been rock solid about sex being sex not gender. The others are either Britain First in disguise or weird, inconsistent, living in a dream world.

Gargh!

I think we're playing a dangerous game

it wasn’t women who started this game but it’s good to see women push to end it

I think we're playing a dangerous game
Oh I agree with you that it's a dangerous game. Where we probably disagree is that I think it's dangerous whatever we choose to do.

The reason 'common sense' is possibly beginning to kick in - at least in this country - is surely because some very brave women have made an almighty fuss, at no small cost to themselves. They have forced a public conversation and, in my opinion, they have been able to do so because in England, women still have the right to name ourselves, talk about ourselves and organise ourselves. If you can explain to us how we can ever win that right back once we've lost it then I'd be happy to listen.

I hope other parties are paying attention. I will never vote Conservative because of their other policies but the other parties’ TWAW stance mean that I cannot give them my vote either.

I think we're playing a dangerous game if we get so caught up in the trans issue that we vote for anyone who has voted to keep women in poverty and in many cases made it impossible to flee abusive relationships.

Supporting women goes far and beyond the trans issue which tbh is an agenda pushed by a tiny minority of people with big mouths and an online presence. I've always seen it as something that will simmer down when common sense kicks in. We're already seeing that with the rules brought in around competitive swimming. That will have a knock on affect.

This is interesting. I voted Tory in the council elections when I normally would go for Labour or Plaid Cymru. Both of which are going the way of Scotland wrt women's rights.

The Tory candidate was the only one who knocked the door and understood exactly what I was talking about on this issue. She made notes and said someone else on my street had raised it too.

This must permeate up through the party if people are raising it on the doorstep.

Mind you, I actually went to see my local Labour MP who was non committal and said he'd get back to me. He never did and I bet he just filed me under 'terf'. That's how much of s stuff Labour gives about women's genuine concerns.

I think Starmer is perfectly patriotic enough and I'm mystified by the idea he isn't - he's good at negotiating and delegating as well. I'm not sure he will ever be PM but I'd be quite happy if he were.

@Artichokeleaves i do believe Blair’s liking for and optimism about this country was genuine. He saw at his role to enable people to thrive, not to reform and lecture them.
I am not saying he got everything right; just that he managed to connect with the electorate in a way that starmer will never manage, because he liked them and believed them capable of good things. Starmer has to fake patriotism. Blair didn’t.

I’m glad the issue is one top agenda item in this candidate race - what a turnaround I virtually raise a drink to all those pushing for so long for this point alone

On a separate note I’m pleased to hear other issues are taxes but I’d like to see more about debt / deficit / inflation

Listening to Schapps it was clear the clutch of lockdowns had gone - the comms campaign was so effective we lost our heads

‘but hey let's all overlook those small things because Sunak knows what a woman is. 🙄’

Or, let’s overlook the demolition of free speech and women’s right to be recognised as what we are, keep our employment when we want to talk about what we are, and not be abused in the street.

This thread seems to indicate that the Mordaunt report was some kind of distraction tactic or means of allowing the researchers to lobby for TRAs. I can't see that anything has been published.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3631383-Penny-Mordaunt-It-s-vital-we-look-into-surge-in-girls-wanting-to-change-gender?page=1

Well let's say Blair was good at acting and pretending to like and respect the British people. He was a talented salesman, and until everyone saw through it and realised it only was an act, and he was being driven by Mandelson et al who had all of the moral superiority beliefs that the country should be run by professional politicians who did to people what was good for them, and that democracy was inconvenient outdated? And Brown who thought anyone who didn't do RightThink was a bigot?

All the crap came directly from them. This is their legacy.

I am no fan of any party at all currently. I am politically homeless. But if Sunak et al are going to position themselves as the party of the grownups and basic common sense then I'm listening. As opposed to the left all trying to capture the 'youth vote' with a lot of ideological pixie dust based on people with too little life experience to see through to the dark bits behind it. And if it's been realised that pissed off women vote and are at the end of their bloody tethers with all this, and have husbands, fathers, brothers and sons with a vote too?

Good. About bloody time.

Has Mordaunt's report on transitioning girls been published?

@TimBoothseyes its stupid to say he doesn’t care about those things. Self evidently the cost of living is a massive preoccupation for any politician who knows he needs the public to vote for him. He may not have the right solutions but I’ve yet to see little Keir propose anything. All he can tell us about is his integrity, pompous windbag that he is

Straying off topic, but what would labour do about any of those things though? Some of them, such as fuel costs are about wider economic and geopolitical situations outside of our control. But lets take something like energy prices. The solution as I see it, is for us as a country to suit ourselves, rather than trying to reach externally imposed and fast tracked global agreements on reducing carbon emissions that will cost us all dearly, especially the poor. We ought to focus on energy independence. In the short term, due to the crisis, use the umpteenth tons of coal we have at our disposal. In the longer term, build more nuclear energy stations. Explore fracking now. They may well be other reasons why we're not doing these things, but my point is no labour party will ever countenance such a move. There is not even a conversation. They are ideologically wed and committed to the environmental lobby. Leftist environmentalism.

They are talking about increasing solar, which cannot provide us with our energy needs or provide surplus for situations like we're in now. So our prices remain high.

It's not just the loss of women's rights. Increasingly, we're seeing the cost of parties adhering to ideological imperatives that are removed from the reality of everyday people's existence and being completely inflexible in those positions. The voter gets nothing. Just told why they're wrong. To me, Labour represents that.

I also grew up under Tony Blair regeneration. I remember uni fees being imposed. I saw promises of living standards being better, then big estates with hundreds of families in them knocked down, prettied up and then changed into 'Affordable' housing with a mere quarter of social housing set aside. People moved out the area supposedly temporarily but many were never returned, and those that did return moved into accommodation that often had less room and higher utility costs. Centrist labour isn't that far a shout from Conservatism imo.

Yes, that's exactly how I see the LP now. Not a party I will vote for again unless there is some fundamental change. They have lost Scotland, lost the working class, lost women, lost ethnic minorities... but they've gained the woke.

I'd like to see the tories shake off the woke encroachments into government, and become more genuinely conservative - i.e. work to conserve the institutions and values that hold society together. I like Kemi because she seems like a proper conservative - although even she voted for vaccine mandates, which worries me. Rishi's furlough scheme was populist and his policies during covid have helped plunge us into a horrible recession. But any tory government is better than a labour one.

Labour Party has changed. It is not about the ordinary working person anymore.

It hasn't been for some time. I saw Giles Udy's interview about his book earlier this year and it's given me a lot of food for thought and some unwelcome reflections. This slice of history doesn't make any other political party look good, but it does shed a light on Labour's reputation for being concerned for the working classes and the readiness to supplant reality with ideology.

The part about the kulaks, the internal deportations, the slavery, and the death toll starts here.

Summary: In January 1930, the New Statesman reported that dekulakisation was a "cruel experiment" involving "imprisonment and execution." Over the next two years, 1.8 million kulaks were arrested and deported to the North. Some 240,000 died. By 1931, 60,000 Russians had been arrested on religious grounds and 5,000 shot. The exact numbers may not have been known in the West, but the basic facts of Soviet mass murder, disenfranchisement, and slave labour were available to any literate Briton by the end of the 1920s.

'Labour and the Gulag: Russia and the Seduction of the British Left'

He may know what a woman is, but he doesn't care that millions of elderly woman will not be able to afford to keep warm this winter. He doesn't care that many will be going without food in order that their children are able to eat. He doesn't care about the massive cost to working women wrt childcare fees. He doesn't care that women won't be able to afford to get to work because of the cost of fuel......but hey let's all overlook those small things because Sunak knows what a woman is. 🙄

@LadyAnnabelsTapestries

It’s not precisely oxymoronic. She can believe (and I’m sure she does) that the meteoric increase in the number of girls ‘identifying’ as boys is a concern and still believe that it is morally right to pretend a male person is a woman.

She knows biology is real and how it works. She also believes males who identify as women become women, through ‘gender identity’, and that they are and should be entitled by law to be treated exactly as women.