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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

David Aaronovitch in the Times comes out as GC

34 replies

Pluvia · 22/06/2022 18:11

Excellent article explaining why girls are the ones who suffer in all these social contagion situations. I'm on a cheap subscription deal and don't seem to have access to share tokens. Perhaps someone could add a readable link?

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/whatever-the-panic-girls-are-always-victims-7t89ktvfd

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Pluvia · 25/06/2022 14:13

I've been trying to find a really good documentary I watched on lobotomy and how it was used as a cure-all in the early 1900s and its inventor awarded a Nobel Prize. I had a lot in common with trans ideology and surgery. Distressed or non-conforming people, psychiatry unable to help, so they throw very crude surgery at it and try to hush up the side effects.

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CriticalCondition · 25/06/2022 13:33

I'm pleased about David Aaronovitch. Many moons ago I came across him through work when he was writing for the Independent and Independent on Sunday back when they were real newspapers with proper journalists. My impression then was he was a good guy. Pleased to find him being very clear on this one.
And calling out OJ of course. Pure gold. Grin

StellaAndCrow · 25/06/2022 12:28

timeisnotaline · 23/06/2022 01:07

He certainly has been. You’re welcome for this beautiful reminder 😊😊

Thank you, I missed that at the time - oh that's lovely!

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 23/06/2022 20:15

It seems so obvious to me, given the long, well-documented history of teenage girls being influenced by social contagion, that this is what's happening with trans identity. Absolutely amazing that highly educated medical professionals can't see it.

Normally one of us has mentioned this book by now: The Sleeping Beauties: And Other Stories of Mystery Illness by Suzanne O'Sullivan

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1529010551/?

Nightmare2022 · 23/06/2022 20:07

RoyalCorgi · 23/06/2022 10:47

It's an excellent piece, and really helpful, I think, to draw the comparison with other unevidenced fads in psychiatry. It shows how easily the profession can be taken over by a clearly nonsensical ideology. Obviously the difference this time is that the ideology is supported by an army of aggressive and intimidating enforcers outside the profession, which wasn't the case with the multiple personality and Satanic abuse crazes.

It seems so obvious to me, given the long, well-documented history of teenage girls being influenced by social contagion, that this is what's happening with trans identity. Absolutely amazing that highly educated medical professionals can't see it.

I couldn’t agree with @RoyalCorgi more.

Sadly, I have first hand experience of the lack of critical thinking in the psychiatric profession.

Iknowitisheresomewhere · 23/06/2022 10:48

Yes it was. Described as a very thoughtful piece.

RoyalCorgi · 23/06/2022 10:47

It's an excellent piece, and really helpful, I think, to draw the comparison with other unevidenced fads in psychiatry. It shows how easily the profession can be taken over by a clearly nonsensical ideology. Obviously the difference this time is that the ideology is supported by an army of aggressive and intimidating enforcers outside the profession, which wasn't the case with the multiple personality and Satanic abuse crazes.

It seems so obvious to me, given the long, well-documented history of teenage girls being influenced by social contagion, that this is what's happening with trans identity. Absolutely amazing that highly educated medical professionals can't see it.

Igmum · 23/06/2022 10:39

Excellent article thank you for sharing OP. I love the way that the grown ups are increasingly coming forward with facts.

timeisnotaline · 23/06/2022 10:24

@Iknowitisheresomewhere a positive take?

teawamutu · 23/06/2022 10:10

Iknowitisheresomewhere · 23/06/2022 07:47

This article was picked out in the newspaper review on the Today programme just now.

Nice.

Iknowitisheresomewhere · 23/06/2022 07:47

This article was picked out in the newspaper review on the Today programme just now.

timeisnotaline · 23/06/2022 01:07

He certainly has been. You’re welcome for this beautiful reminder 😊😊

David Aaronovitch in the Times comes out as GC
AnneLovesGilbert · 22/06/2022 23:06

Thank you so much for sharing this. It’s excellent. He’s been on the case for some time including on Times Radio. Sunlight, blessed sunlight.

Mollyollydolly · 22/06/2022 22:51

David's a good man. Have a great deal of respect for him ever since he handed Owen Jones his arse, gift wrapped, on twitter for one of his many misogynistic rants.
I remember in the 70s when I was a teenager, satanic abuse stories featured heavily in the tabloids, they were everywhere. Even then as a kid I remember thinking this is bollocks.

NashvilleQueen · 22/06/2022 22:47

He also challenged Billy Bragg on Twitter I think when he said something silly about GC women.

TheBiologyStupid · 22/06/2022 22:41

DeaconBoo · 22/06/2022 22:36

I know this isn't the point but it's hurting my head that it says both "Sybil" and "Sibyl" over and over.

Not just me, then.
Maybe Sybil and Sibyl were different fictional "alters"?! 😉

DeaconBoo · 22/06/2022 22:36

I know this isn't the point but it's hurting my head that it says both "Sybil" and "Sibyl" over and over.

TheBiologyStupid · 22/06/2022 21:12

An excellent piece by Aaronovitch. The Times are really covering this issue a LOT.

McDuffy · 22/06/2022 20:29

Good article, I seldom check for updates in the afternoon so thanks for flagging. Makes me feel desperately sad for the girls involved Sad

Pluvia · 22/06/2022 20:23

I haven't been keeping tabs. Now I'm nudged I remember he was positive about Helen Joyce. This is the first time I'd have felt confident that he was on-side.

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/06/2022 19:37

David's been good on this for a while.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 22/06/2022 19:35

It's a very good piece.
There is so much excellent coverage of this issue in the Times. Mind you, the unfortunate Helen Rumbelow has a dire comment piece today about the end of the "single sex experiment" and the comments below are scathing from the majority of commentators.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 22/06/2022 19:29

Roseglen84 · 22/06/2022 19:18

I agree, it's a very good read. Although many women (including Helen Joyce) have made similar points in the past. Maybe he will be listened to more than they were.

It was Helen Joyce's book that shifted Aaronovitch off the fence.

DA quotation from his review:

"I’m off the fence. I will call people by the name and pronouns they tell me they want to be called by. I am prepared to defend their right not to be discriminated against at work and in shops, to defend them against bullying and harassment. But as Joyce says so passionately, that doesn’t change reality. A penis is a male sex organ, men don’t have babies. Women exist."

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4298023-David-Aaronovitch-Review-of-Helen-Joyces-Book

Franca123 · 22/06/2022 19:27

I watched a documentary about nursery school owners in the US being prosecuted for very bizarre satanic ritual child abuse. It struck me at the time as being so similar to the gender stuff. Glad someone has written about the similarities so well.

Roseglen84 · 22/06/2022 19:18

I agree, it's a very good read. Although many women (including Helen Joyce) have made similar points in the past. Maybe he will be listened to more than they were.