Pronouns in maths exams

They do this a number of times.

In that particular case no, but it's a clumsy sentence. It could be rewritten as "this is done a number of times." Although passive voices are supposedly less clear, this avoids the shock horror of talking about someone with a male name as he.

Who are the other people with the spinners?

suggestionsplease1

I sincerely hope you do not have anything to do with SN children because not only do your posts show a lack of knowledge of ND children , they are downright offensive.

Can we have some more examples of questions you imagine the OP is wrong about, suggestions? I feel you haven't covered them all.

(And in your second example, I would be thrown by the sentence "Tree diagrams gcse maths question". Not because I can't possibly understand what it means, but because its inclusion in a question does not seem relevant, and makes me question my understanding about what I am being told.)

The exam papers will have been written so that there is no possible confusion over the number of characters referred to for calculations of answers.

LOL! No, in fact it’s very common that exam paper questions don’t quite make sense. Every year there are problems with errors and badly written questions in exam papers. It’s a rare exam when the invigilator doesn’t have a correction to announce 😂

Is it d????

David has two spinners, spinner A and spinner B.

Each spinner can only land on blue or green.

The probability that spinner A will land on blue is 0.25.

The probability that spinner B will land on green is 0.8.

The probability tree diagram shows this information.

Tree diagrams gcse maths question

David spins spinner A and spinner B together.

They do this a number of times.

The number of times both spinners land on blue is 40.

Work out an estimate for the numbers of times both spinners land on green.

Which is the correct answer?

A) 800
B) 64
C) 128
D) 480

Does the pronoun use impact your calculation?

@suggestionsplease1 - because "they" is a plural and refers to more than one person. Or at least it does in the,English language that is spoken in the UK!!!!

Can't believe that I am having to explain this - this is where all this nonsense has brought us!!! Unbef*inglievable!!!!

'Petra will receive one fifth share of an inheritance of £250. How much will they receive?'
Is that confusing?

Yes, because after Petra has received her £50 we don't know how many people the £200 remainder is to be divided among or how.

You say your DD is familiar with a wide range of pronouns use, so why did she get thrown with the use of "they" ?

I'm so sick of the nonsense!

English is not my first language - the use of 'they' here would make me doubt if the question refers to Petra (ie the 1/5 already mentioned), or to the 'other people' who will receive the remaining 4/5 of the inheritance.

Am so glad you raised this OP. My teen DD complained to me after the previous paper and said that she found it v confusing. To quote @suggestionsplease1 she is a "normal" GCSE student who is not overly confident in Maths. She said the use of "they" threw her off and she had to keep rereading the question to check that she hadn't misinterpreted it. I am now minded to put in a complaint to the exam board.

Not all teens have swallowed all this bullshit btw @suggestionsplease1 - some can see it for exactly what it is - compelled speech. My DD has given up talking in large friendship groups as she can't keep up with which pronouns some of her contemporaries are using (as they seem to change them every week).

BTW @suggestionsplease1 - I also have a background in SEN and can only say that my sympathies go out to all those poor kids that you work with if your attitudes on this thread are indicative of your empathy.

And it lost half my post…
Basically just saying that yes there is still definitely the possibility of confusion with
“Petra will receive one fifth share of an inheritance of £250. How much will they receive?'” It could be read as being asked what the remaining share of multiple people was e.g the £200 which Petra the individual hasn’t received. Even if the correct answer is then put down, it will still have take some candidates extra time to process that out and decide which option.

OP - please do mention it if you can, it’s important even if it only affects one person.

OP, the only logical conclusion is that your colleagues are lying, given that there is apparently zero chance of 'they' and 'theirs' being used in any ambiguous sense.

I suspect I’m going to regret responding but it matters to get as much clarity as possible and to just test what that particular exam is focussed on as far as possible.

So yes,

I stopped reading this thread after a certain point but thanks for reminding me, I will read the latest and add to it again when I get a minute.

Going back to my earlier point, DD would have looked for the one fifth and £250. She's a fairly average student.

Lots of us have teens. Most of them aren't immersed in this weird pronoun bubble.

Neither are mine, yet the apparent use of they in the questions wasn't noticed by DD.

I do actually work in this area.

Students should be competent for the qualifications they are entered into.

Reasonable adjustments are of course possible but must preserve the integrity of the qualification.

The language should be reasonably accessible but of course when you get to problem solving questions after a certain level the language necessarily reflects the complexity of the maths standards the student is required to demonstrate their competence in.

It is reasonable for the present cohort of students to appreciate the use of they/their in the singular, and questions will be framed in such a way that it would not be possible for there to be confusion over singular/plural.

It's bizarre to me that anyone could claim there is zero chance a word that might mean one person or plural people could be misinterpreted. But I have seen the use of language and the steadfast refusal to ever clarify terms that are used frequently, so I guess it's all part of the same sort of attitude that clarity is something to shy away from.

I also find it bizarre that someone is... guessing what the question the OP describes is? Imagining it? To try and prove that a made-up question is ok?

(I would be confused by the wording of 'receive one fifth share' in that - if I came across that I would wonder why they hadn't called it 'a one-fifth share' or 'a 1/5 share' and if the different way of wording it meant they were asking for something other than a one-fifth share).

Yes. Students who don't necessariily read well or accurately might think they've missed part of the question about †he other people, and try to work out the remainder that Petra doesn't receive, for example. Or many other possibilities. The point is that they are already struggling with language and reading, and often that they don't realise that themselves, so won't seek clarification if something doesn't make sense - they're used to things being confusing and not making sense, so the fact that they don't remember who else might have received the money wouldn't be that unusual.

And of course, it's quite possible to write a single question where it's not confusing. it won't be, every time, to every child. But †hat doesn't mean it's a good principle to follow in general, because often it will be confusing.

You seem to have no understanding of the depth of language problems that children with DLD or dyslexia or other issues can face, that don't mean that they shouldn't be allowed to try for a grade 4 in maths. They might well struggle hugely - but give them all the reasonable chances they can have by not making the wording worse.

That's not just me saying that, it's the Ofqual chief regulator (quote from link above)

"If an exam is intended to assess understanding of complex language, then of course the questions will use complex language. But if an exam is assessing numerical skills, it does not need to include complex language which could get in the way of some students showing those skills."

You're keen to ask questions, suggestions, but less willing to answer them. I left you some Yes/No/Don't Know ones over at a thread the other day which you've ignored. No GCSE required: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4563778-northumbria-university-sarah-phillimore-and-harry-miller-seen-as-a-safety-and-wellbeing-risk-to-an-entire-university?page=7

Yet more info I just found from Ofqual.
www.gov.uk/government/news/new-ofqual-guidance-on-making-assessments-accessible-for-students

Over complication of language is an issue, it does disadvantage some groups of students above others, and it is not necessary in a paper that is supposed to be testing maths.

'Petra will receive one fifth share of an inheritance of £250. How much will they receive?'

Is that confusing?

People may want to bury their heads in the sand but maybe they should chat to some 14-16 years olds instead.

You're also not listening to those of us who work with 14-16 year olds who do have difficulties with language. They might be able to pass maths with a lot of work, but it doesn't mean that the language aspects are easy for them. And it's a disability that means just explaining things to them doesn't work. The whole problem with language disabilities is that things like pronouns are confusing at the best of times. They miss out on all kind of clues about which pronoun refers to which person, what order words are in, what's the subject/object, how it all fits together, what 'each' refers to, whether something has happened or might be going to happen, whether something is a statement or a question. It's already SO easy for them to misunderstand a question, and to not even realise that they are doing so, and not to know to ask anything further. Why make things worse?!