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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Drag Queen Story Time

713 replies

LizzyStrata · 13/06/2022 10:33

First time posting here, so not sure of the etiquette. My apologies if this is the wrong place to raise these concerns.

Reading Borough Council is planning to hold Drag Queen Story Hour events in our libraries during the summer holidays. I’ve written to my MP, my councillors, and the Head of the Library Service to raise concerns. I think drag is entirely inappropriate for children, as it is a form of adult entertainment, highly sexualised and misogynistic, that blurs boundaries and undermines safeguarding.

The response Ive had is simply that they have received very few complaints so no reason to cancel.

Has anyone had any experience of tackling their local library over this issue? Grateful for any tips.

Also, if you live in Berkshire ,would you be willing to write and share your concerns?

thanks!

OP posts:
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Datun · 28/07/2022 11:42

People on here proclaiming that women are both pearl clutching prudes and and filthy minded, for disagreeing with DQST really are on a hiding to nothing.

No amount of but, but Dame Edna Everage or yay Lilly Savage is going to persuade anyone that drag queening is not a full on sexualised adult entertainment.

There can't be anyone, certain nobody on here, who doesn't know exactly what drag is. From RuPaul's drag race and their 'women are fish', to the old school drag clubs.

The sexualised and misogynistic play on names, all of it. It's blinding bloody obvious.

Then you've got all the new, extreme stuff like Desmond is Amazing, twerking with naked men and Lacatitia persuading kids they need new parents and, most recently, children should be opening their minds, along with their legs.

Lowering boundaries around children is allowing grown men to suggest children should open their legs, and getting minors on stage in gay clubs.

Trying to pretend it's like widow Twanky is desperate stuff indeed.

It's not about encouraging children into an understanding of the LGB community, because it's the drag part that is being centralised. And you've going to have a pretty hard time persuading anyone that drag is not an adult sexualised entertainment.

And we're also back to the whole ridiculous justification of having to say we don't think that drag queens are perverts, but any pervert can now avail himself of the opportunity that DQST provides.

If people want to advocate for DQST under those circumstances, then they are demonstrating a safeguarding failure in the way they think. Whether it's deliberate or not, it's very instantly recognised for what it is.

Hoisin75 · 28/07/2022 11:26

The black pampers have turned out to counter protest the GC women protesting DQSH in Bristol today.

Drag Queen Story Time
KittenKong · 28/07/2022 11:25

On tv. Not in person, interacting with children.

GoodJanetBadJanet · 28/07/2022 11:25

No fanfare, no glitter - it’s just part of life.
Yes, but so is those who do want to be flamboyant/dress up.
So be gay, but not too outwardly gay?
An acceptably conservative "normal" type of gay.

GoodJanetBadJanet · 28/07/2022 11:21

What is your point? Lily Savage never targeted her act to 0-5 year old children.
My point is that she was presenting on breakfast telly, on a family friendly breakfast show.
A main person on there.
At a time when lots of toddlers/kids are at home watching when their parents are

Musomama1 · 28/07/2022 07:40

GoodJanetBadJanet · 27/07/2022 22:42

Come to think of it, didn't Lily Savage present the Big Breakfast on telly in the 90s?
You can't say she dressed as a "middle aged housewife."
She was on breakfast telly in full make up, wig dresses and heels.

What is your point? Lily Savage never targeted her act to 0-5 year old children.

TullyApplebottom · 28/07/2022 06:52

The best thing to do, if we want children to have healthy attitudes to gay sexuality, is to behave normally around it. No fanfare, no glitter - it’s just part of life.
the reason we end up with dumb shit like drag queen story time is because straight people still can’t really do that. Or lots can’t, anyway.

IcakethereforeIam · 27/07/2022 23:41

Actually, GJBJ I think that's not unreasonable. Obviously, they'd have to be prepared to deal with any questions the sprogs might throw at them. But, yeah.Smile

GoodJanetBadJanet · 27/07/2022 22:49

You could suggest it if you think it's a great idea.

I would suggest that it isn't, for the same reason people reading children's stories at the library don't tell the kids they are straight.

It's not appropriate for adults to have that conversation in that kind of setting with kids

It doesn't have to be about telling them you're a lesbian or gay though? Surely instead of saying "hey kids, I'm a lesbian or "hey kids, I'm gay! Now we,'re going to read The Very Hungry Caterpillar!"
Why not have a couple read it, as in a gay couple say "hi, me and my husband are going to read a story to you today" or a lesbian couple say "me and my wife"
That'd be perfectly appropriate, surely?!

GoodJanetBadJanet · 27/07/2022 22:42

Come to think of it, didn't Lily Savage present the Big Breakfast on telly in the 90s?
You can't say she dressed as a "middle aged housewife."
She was on breakfast telly in full make up, wig dresses and heels.

onthefencesitter · 27/07/2022 21:24

Anactor · 27/07/2022 20:29

MenopausalMe is right - you are giving enough information to out yourself, or at least the synagogue you go to.

But her assumption wasn't even correct :)

Musomama1 · 27/07/2022 20:45

Hearach15 · 27/07/2022 16:19

Drag Queens are part of LGBT culture and that is why people object to them being around kids.

Not to the posters on here. Also these TV shows mentioned are not aimed towards 0-5 year olds. The question should be, is this seen on CBeebies?

Would you be behind a Stripper story time hour? Because that too is adult entertainment, would that be appropriate for young children?

For most people, it's about age appropriacy and common sense. All this 'you're from the 1950s, you're homophobic, you are not fun', it's just distraction.

Anactor · 27/07/2022 20:29

onthefencesitter · 27/07/2022 19:03

Its funny you say that because in my DH's circle of immediate friends (who are all Jewish), two of them have brothers who married Chinese women! I actually thought it was quite common.

And of course such couples end up going to progressive synagogues. Its not super likely they go to an orthodox synagogue right?

MenopausalMe is right - you are giving enough information to out yourself, or at least the synagogue you go to.

TullyApplebottom · 27/07/2022 20:09

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 27/07/2022 17:23

Has anyone explained what benefit it brings to the kids yet?

I think the theory is that because dame Edna was on daytime TV once that proves it. Hard to tell really. The person trying to argue the case is, erm, unlikely to give Jonathan sumption a run for his money

TullyApplebottom · 27/07/2022 20:07

Hearach15 · 27/07/2022 15:54

Loose Women is on the TV at the time when children might see it.

Dame Edna also introduced the Queen at a Jubilee event watched by millions of kids because there is nothing inherently sexual about drag.

It's all in your paranoid minds where everything even remotely associated with LGBT people and culture is a threat to children.

I love your determination to make an utter fool of yourself. With friends like you, the DQST crew need no enemies.

NewBootsAndRanty · 27/07/2022 19:06

www.amazon.co.uk/Olivia-Audio-Collection-Ian-Falconer/dp/0743579593
Dame Edna does storytime. Kind of...

onthefencesitter · 27/07/2022 19:03

MenopausalMe · 27/07/2022 18:51

You might be outing yourself here, there can’t be many Chinese Jews who grew up in China and attend progressive synagogues

Its funny you say that because in my DH's circle of immediate friends (who are all Jewish), two of them have brothers who married Chinese women! I actually thought it was quite common.

And of course such couples end up going to progressive synagogues. Its not super likely they go to an orthodox synagogue right?

MenopausalMe · 27/07/2022 18:51

onthefencesitter · 27/07/2022 16:37

Out of curiosity, do any of you find Chinese opera offensive and misogynistic and inappropriate for young children? It does often involve cross dressing men wearing a lot of makeup! I must have been 3 years old when I watched Chinese opera for the first time with my kindergarden class (grew up in a chinese majority country and am also Chinese).

You might be outing yourself here, there can’t be many Chinese Jews who grew up in China and attend progressive synagogues

sanluca · 27/07/2022 17:36

I actually find the name ADHD quite ableist and offensive.. but at least it isn't someone like Miss Carriage

I also wonder at the benefits for kids and how do parents field the questions?

Why is that man wearing a womans dress? (Yes, kids box clothes into gender stereotypes)?
Well, because he likes wearing them...

Why do other grown ups call him she then? Will I be a she if I wear a dress?
No, you won't because you are a boy... or it doesn't matter what you wear...

Why is he important, just because he wears womans clothes? Well, he is celebrated because of this.

Will I be famous if I wear a princess dress then? No darling, you will still be a normal boy.

But I don't want to be normal, I want to be like him...her... a bright glittery unicorn lady.
That's nice dear

Why aren't you a glittery unicorn lady, mummy? You are no fun
[right, never taking you here again...]

At least I hope the performance was aimed at young children and not like the drag queen that said we need to teach our kids to 'open their hearts, open their minds and open their legs'

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 27/07/2022 17:23

Has anyone explained what benefit it brings to the kids yet?

Tanith · 27/07/2022 17:22

Is this the same Aida H Dee who was protested in Leeds a few years ago?
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3947689-Is-this-true

What I find odd is the lack of information about Drag Queen Story Hour UK. I mean, on the website, there's very little mention of who it is, who has set it up, and any credentials. Most story tellers fall over themselves to tell you all about themselves and their suitability with children. They'll have a list of who they are, if there's more than one.
The website talks about many drag artists available, but there appears to be only one person involved.

IcakethereforeIam · 27/07/2022 16:57

onthefencesitter · 27/07/2022 16:43

So the objection is to the skin tight costumes? If he was wearing a poofy evening gown (the kind that covers everything) and reading a nice story like the three bear or little red riding hood, would that be fine?

What!? Where did I mention costumes, skin tight or otherwise? You're weird!

MangyInseam · 27/07/2022 16:55

Hearach15 · 27/07/2022 16:45

"we don't encourage kids to talk to adults they don't have a parental type relationship with to discuss sexual behaviour with children".

Nonsense, straight adults talk to children all the time about their girlfriends, boyfriends, "she's got married and now's she called Mrs X". It's only when LGBT people do the same people get cross about it.

Yes, children will meet adults of all kinds who may have various family arrangements. It's a very pertinent fact to children who are quite aware of family life, even as toddlers.

If you don't understand the difference between that and discussing sexuality directly I think maybe you aren't really a person who should be deciding what kind of children's programming is appropriate.

MangyInseam · 27/07/2022 16:51

Lockheart · 27/07/2022 16:47

It's also dodgy on a whole different level, for much the same reason we would tend to look askance at a library with a black man story hour.

There are lots of story times with black authors and their works as the focus, especially during Black History Month.

Yes, lots of black people are authors. That's not quite the same as black person story hour, is it?

MangyInseam · 27/07/2022 16:50

onthefencesitter · 27/07/2022 16:37

Out of curiosity, do any of you find Chinese opera offensive and misogynistic and inappropriate for young children? It does often involve cross dressing men wearing a lot of makeup! I must have been 3 years old when I watched Chinese opera for the first time with my kindergarden class (grew up in a chinese majority country and am also Chinese).

I don't see why anyone would. Most people don't have across the board issues with people playing any cross sex role in the theater or other performance venue.

What would be odd and inappropriate would be to take an opera about an adult topic, unsuitable for children, and have an actor come in character, introduced as if he or she was really that person, to read stories to kids.