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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Waitrose delivery driver

633 replies

MsMoorhead · 09/06/2022 08:16

Kellie Jay-Keen reported by her Waitrose delivery driver!

OP posts:
Discovereads · 11/06/2022 21:26

Greencoatblue · 11/06/2022 17:06

Discovereads I’d rather just allow that the delivery driver could have entered her home instead of staying on the doorstep as all my Waitrose delivery drivers do. I wasn’t aware they could come in again, they’ve not said anything so I was just mistaken about that.

Given your now acceptance that the driver could have been in her home does your response to the driver's "I'll take my time" change? Asked to leave somebody's house immediately and gives that response? That's intimidation. Telling him to leave 'in colourful' language is in no way abusive, that's being assertive.

No. Not Intimidation. No, because you can be assertive without verbally abusing someone.

Terfydactyl · 11/06/2022 20:59

MargaritaPie · 11/06/2022 19:54

"I should think that there are currently no primary sources beyond KJK's account"

Then IMO it would be wise to refrain from judgement until if/when more info becomes available.

This is not a court of law?

Why do you care what we discuss and how we discuss it?

It's a rhetorical question, I already know.

ifIwerenotanandroid · 11/06/2022 20:10

I thought the good ladies of MN might be amused by this description of what we've been discussing:

twitter.com/LGBwiththeT/status/1535185127407505414

That sentence structure is something to behold!

VestofAbsurdity · 11/06/2022 20:05

MargaritaPie · 11/06/2022 19:54

"I should think that there are currently no primary sources beyond KJK's account"

Then IMO it would be wise to refrain from judgement until if/when more info becomes available.

Knowing your posting history that's the funniest thing I've read all day, or were you attempting irony?

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 11/06/2022 19:57

Are we expecting the driver to come forward and identify driverself now?

MargaritaPie · 11/06/2022 19:54

"I should think that there are currently no primary sources beyond KJK's account"

Then IMO it would be wise to refrain from judgement until if/when more info becomes available.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 11/06/2022 19:41

MargaritaPie · 11/06/2022 19:18

Is there anywhere I can see what Waitrose or the delivery driver has said?

I like to see both sides of stories.

Margarita Pie, there are memorable occasions where you have posted a link when it hasn't said what you've claimed it to state so it's very encouraging to read your scrupulous fairness to assess both sides in this incident. It also puts you alongside the journalistic standards of OJ in his desire to learn the 'other side of the story' from the 60+ (?) girls who were reported to have passionately expressed their disapprobation of the young woman at the heart of a recent school incident.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550971-times-girl-driven-out-of-school-for-questioning-trans-ideology

However, unless you know the Waitrose driver, I should think that there are currently no primary sources beyond KJK's account. As you may have gathered, Discovereads' summaries are not to be relied upon as they inserted details that can not be verified.

You and Janet might need to stay your curiosity until such time as KJK reports back on any response from Waitrose.

I am confident, however, that should you discover a primary source of evidence, you will link us into it in a timely manner.

GoodJanetBadJanet · 11/06/2022 19:22

Is there anywhere I can see what Waitrose or the delivery driver has said?
I like to see both sides of stories.
same and would like to read the other side too

MargaritaPie · 11/06/2022 19:18

Is there anywhere I can see what Waitrose or the delivery driver has said?

I like to see both sides of stories.

GoodJanetBadJanet · 11/06/2022 19:13

And yet you two are on here all the time berating women for wrongthink
Not here, I always say you're entitled to your own opinion, just like I am.
I've never berated anyone for "wrongthink" (that's your word, not mine)
Disagreed with opinions, yes.
Berated, no

SeaRabbit · 11/06/2022 19:01

I was in the big Waitrose on Finchley Road in London on Thursday this last week. Given the amount of rainbows and Twitter statements online, I was surprised see not one rainbow.

If they put something in KJK's local Waitrose maybe that was trying to get at her. What is anyone else's local Waitrose like?

Bittersweetmammaries · 11/06/2022 18:44

GCRich · 10/06/2022 09:46

It’s still arguable. If anything for the delivery driver to defend herself at an Employment Tribunal as KJK is pushing Waitrose to have the delivery driver sacked over the incident.

Is she pushing to have him sacked or is she just pointing out that his complaint about her is unfounded?

It might be quite interesting. Does Waitrose have a duty of care to check the political views of it's customers, to ensure that it's drivers aren't put in the position of finding themselves wanting to chat about politics but not liking the way the conversation is going? Does Waitrose have a duty to take the side of employees over customers in political debates? Should Waitrose be doing more to protect their employee who is clearly deeply vulnerable (I am serious - if he is unable to be polite when faced with a difference of opinion or reality he is deeply vulnerable)?

I don’t know about that, but as an ex partner I do know that you shouldn’t be bringing the partnership into disrepute whilst wearing business dress. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Greencoatblue · 11/06/2022 18:22

Greencoatblue · 11/06/2022 17:06

Discovereads I’d rather just allow that the delivery driver could have entered her home instead of staying on the doorstep as all my Waitrose delivery drivers do. I wasn’t aware they could come in again, they’ve not said anything so I was just mistaken about that.

Given your now acceptance that the driver could have been in her home does your response to the driver's "I'll take my time" change? Asked to leave somebody's house immediately and gives that response? That's intimidation. Telling him to leave 'in colourful' language is in no way abusive, that's being assertive.

Sorry to quote myself but you seem to have missed this post Discovereads and only addressed the one I posted two posts later. I'd be interested in whether or not you'd amend your response, and if not why did you repeatedly say the driver was not inside her property but outside on the step as if that made a difference?

GoodJanetBadJanet · 11/06/2022 18:08

Not all transpeople are TRAs btw. Many just want to live their lives in peace
Sorry, chopped that bit off by accident, completely agree there as well

GoodJanetBadJanet · 11/06/2022 18:06

The fact she asked what the signs in KJKs window meant could mean she didn’t know and was asking out of curiosity or it could mean she knew and was baiting KJK into a debate. Fact is we don’t know.
Very true too

GoodJanetBadJanet · 11/06/2022 18:03

The delivery driver had heard of her and 'adult human female',
Well yes because the delivery driver is trans, so will have had more chance of hearing about her than those who aren't. (Unless you follow the "discussion" like I said)
I've no doubt that all of Waitrose and John Lewis is riddled with Tra's.
Careful, you're tin foil hat's slipping.
Oh, and "riddled?" Nice. 🙄
People who are supporting of trans rights/support trans people aren't automatically trans rights activists or something to be conflated with an infestation.
Just normal people with differing views to you.

ApresSkee · 11/06/2022 17:56

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Bittersweetmammaries · 11/06/2022 17:53

Discovereads · 10/06/2022 08:56

The letter Waitrose sent stated KJK was verbally abusive to the delivery driver. Those are not spurious allegations because she literally confessed to verbally abusing the delivery driver in her video.

Im sorry , but it’s not validating “somebody’s immersive fiction” to simply not dispute the (very real) existence of someone’s legal gender identity to their face.

Once a year, on Christmas Eve, I identify as an overweight, festively dressed male when I’m getting the kids Christmas presents ready. That’s my immersive fiction and I am happy for anybody to still call me a female seeing as I’m still biologically female.

Discovereads · 11/06/2022 17:49

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Actually it is alleged the delivery driver knew “who she was” but I have yet to see any evidence of this. The fact she asked what the signs in KJKs window meant could mean she didn’t know and was asking out of curiosity or it could mean she knew and was baiting KJK into a debate. Fact is we don’t know.

Not all transpeople are TRAs btw. Many just want to live their lives in peace.

Discovereads · 11/06/2022 17:48

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Actually it is alleged the delivery driver knew “who she was” but I have yet to see any evidence of this. The fact she asked what the signs in KJKs window meant could mean she didn’t know and was asking out of curiosity or it could mean she knew and was baiting KJK into a debate. Fact is we don’t know.

Not all transpeople are TRAs btw. Many just want to live their lives in peace.

Clymene · 11/06/2022 17:47

And yet you two are on here all the time berating women for wrongthink.

ApresSkee · 11/06/2022 17:46

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This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Discovereads · 11/06/2022 17:33

Greencoatblue · 11/06/2022 17:15

Also, from your first post
Full disclosure, I am a trans ally and not interested in getting into a trans rights debate. and yet you've never heard of KJK, aka PosieParker,
founder of Standing for women, received lots of publicity for the Women, adult human female posters that TRAs got removed, holds Speakers Corner meetings up and down the country? You've never heard a complaint about her or her campaigns from any transperson? I'm truly surprised!

This thread was the first I ever heard of her.

GoodJanetBadJanet · 11/06/2022 17:27

Erm, lots of people have heard of Kellie-Jay. She's a regular on GB News & Talkradio and last week she had an hour long interview with Tucker Carlson on Fox TV which was watched by millions.
Outside of here and other online discussions, you're not automatically going to have heard of her.
I don't think I know one person in RL who if I mentioned the name would know who I was talking about.
Unless they actively followed "gender critical" discussion.

Greencoatblue · 11/06/2022 17:15

Also, from your first post
Full disclosure, I am a trans ally and not interested in getting into a trans rights debate. and yet you've never heard of KJK, aka PosieParker,
founder of Standing for women, received lots of publicity for the Women, adult human female posters that TRAs got removed, holds Speakers Corner meetings up and down the country? You've never heard a complaint about her or her campaigns from any transperson? I'm truly surprised!