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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A transwoman feeding their new born baby with their own milk..

593 replies

Soubriquet · 21/05/2022 14:43

A website has said they have lost many followers with supporting this.

I just don’t understand why this is being promoted. If men in general were able to breastfeed children, why is this not being encouraged among married couples? Im sure plenty of men would be willing to step up and share breastfeeding with their partner.

It can’t be healthy for a baby to be fed this way, as surely the transwoman would be taking multiple type of hormones in order to remain transitioned?

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PenelopePipPip · 21/05/2022 18:16

@Clymene I never said male breasts could produce the same quantities of ilk as female breasts. I don't think breasts have been designed to do anything. We evolved.

Female breasts have certainly evolved to produce greater quantities of milk with less intervention than male breasts. But male breasts can and do produce milk.

Fewer than 1 in 4 human infants are exclusively fed breastmilk at 6 weeks in England.

Its a fair point that introducing supplementary feeding from co-breastfeeding could interrupt supply for the other parent @WarriorN but that is presumably also a risk for lesbian parents who co-breastfeed. If it is a risk both parents are aware of and take into account in their decision-making presumably thats OK. If one parent bullies the other to allow them to breastfeed the baby at a cost to the other that isn't but that is because bullying is not OK.

I don't think we can conclude that "as seems common with children in families with trans identified parents, the adults' feelings and priorities are placed above the infants." How do families make decisions about infant feeding? They seem quite personal to me and we simply don't know how these decisions are reached in private.

Thelnebriati · 21/05/2022 18:16

1 Welfare of the child.
(1)When a court determines any question with respect to
(a)the upbringing of a child
the child’s welfare shall be the court’s paramount consideration.
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1989/41/section/1

WarriorN · 21/05/2022 18:16

(Care of Shero Genevieve Gluck.)

Squiff70 · 21/05/2022 18:16

Cheesepleeze · 21/05/2022 18:10

Putting aside the debate on trans parents and whether this is right or wrong - I’m seriously impressed that this is physically possible. I’m no biology expert, so I had no idea that breast milk could be produced in somebody born without the female reproductive system. Medical science is amazing👏

Anything is possible if you fill somebody to the brim with drugs. I mean, look at Donald Trump.

WarriorN · 21/05/2022 18:15

This previous thread is pertinent, but comes with a serious warning.

I wouldn't be able to read if I was feeding a newborn or young baby.

Queering of Motherhood. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4377013-queering-of-motherhood-warning

oakleaffy · 21/05/2022 18:14

SheeceRearsmith · 21/05/2022 17:20

Quite frankly it’s an outrage that this is being supported and promoted when natal women (I have no bloody idea what to call a woman born a woman anymore - whatever I say will offend someone) struggle and struggle to get breastfeeding support. This just smacks of me, me, me rather than the needs of the child.

A woman is an adult human female.

A Bull cannot become a cow.
A Horse cannot become a Mare.
A Dog cannot become a Bitch
A Ram cannot become a Ewe.

Simple Biology.

Cheesepleeze · 21/05/2022 18:10

Putting aside the debate on trans parents and whether this is right or wrong - I’m seriously impressed that this is physically possible. I’m no biology expert, so I had no idea that breast milk could be produced in somebody born without the female reproductive system. Medical science is amazing👏

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 21/05/2022 18:07

Rainbowshit · 21/05/2022 17:22

🤮

Jesus Christ.

I've never seen a bigger Red Flag EVER Confused

oakleaffy · 21/05/2022 18:07

britneyisfree · 21/05/2022 17:56

I saw this on breastfeeding and beyond fb group this morning. The comments were so disappointing everyone was delighted.

If there is any child that needs formula desperately it's this poor baby.

I agree with the drug laden ''Milk'' that will be forced into the mouth of that poor unfortunate child.

Formula would be much safer than this artificially produced secretion.

CheeseComa · 21/05/2022 18:06

Two very interesting Twitter threads on this topic with links to relevant studies from a (GC) biologist:

twitter.com/Frollein_VogelV/status/1527236367348277248?s=20&t=Z8UBh_cRfqH0iy8A0T9obg

twitter.com/Frollein_VogelV/status/1470819010090520582

The threads are in German but you can just click on 'translate tweet' at the bottom of each tweet.

Squiff70 · 21/05/2022 18:05

FunnyTalks · 21/05/2022 17:31

This x 1000

I've wanted to use this pic for so long...

A transwoman feeding their new born baby with their own milk..
oakleaffy · 21/05/2022 18:02

That looks extremely unhealthy for the unfortunate child having to drink such chemically induced ''Milk''

I'm pro breast feeding, but in this instance, Formula all the way! Mother's milk is naturally produced.

This is just selfish vanity on behalf of the person doing the ''Chest'' ''Feeding''.

''Domperidone has been banned in the U.S. given the FDA's concerns with its safety. The agency also stated in 2004 that it is unapproved for this off-label use to increase milk production. For that reason, it can be difficult to acquire.''

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 21/05/2022 18:02

HermioneKipper · 21/05/2022 16:25

Oh for gods sake you’ve clearly got some issue with the fact you used meds while breastfeeding @PenelopePipPip

I clearly don’t mean women who are on carefully managed meds.

A TW is on a cocktail of cross sex hormones which would almost certainly pass into the “milk.” And apparently they only produce about a teaspoon of secretion which certainly isn’t enough to nourish a baby. They’re doing it for entirely their own benefit and not that of the child

This x 100.

In this case that baby is a vanity project and it's a fucking disgrace.

WarriorN · 21/05/2022 18:02

Penelope you won't be taking the other drugs the TW is though. Im aware of 2 mums local to me who've had to use the protocol.

I believe when this has happened with TW they are unable to sustain enough to feed the baby.

Also, it has the potential to (selfishly) mess up the milk supply for the actual mother. As it is a delicate balance of demand and supply.

This is a case of where, as seems common with children in families with trans identified parents, the adults' feelings and priorities are placed above the infants.'

blublub · 21/05/2022 17:57

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

britneyisfree · 21/05/2022 17:56

I saw this on breastfeeding and beyond fb group this morning. The comments were so disappointing everyone was delighted.

If there is any child that needs formula desperately it's this poor baby.

jamoncrumpets · 21/05/2022 17:55

WorriedWoking · 21/05/2022 17:46

Vile, just vile to use a baby like this to validate a man as a transwoman, especially one who gets sexual satisfaction from this horrible act that he’s performing. Poor baby is all I can say. I cannot bear to think of the life it will be forced to endure when both parents, evidently put their own wants before its needs 😟

How can you possibly prove he gets sexual satisfaction from it?!

Clymene · 21/05/2022 17:51

@PenelopePipPip - if men could lactate to the same quantity as woman, the male in the medical study someone quoted would have been able to feed his baby for more than 6 weeks. The fact that he couldn't suggests that women's breasts are designed for breastfeeding, not men's.

Here's a helpful picture

A transwoman feeding their new born baby with their own milk..
PenelopePipPip · 21/05/2022 17:46

@SabiRiver however artificially inseminating a cow, taking her calf away from her and slaughtering it at 9weeks in order to ensure she becomes pregnant and lactates 'naturally' creates a secretion you are happy having in your cuppa?

I'm not a vegan btw. Just really struggling to understand why this is good and a liquid from a male animal would not be, particularly since we slaughter and eat the bulls and coagulate their blood to make 'pudding'.

WorriedWoking · 21/05/2022 17:46

Vile, just vile to use a baby like this to validate a man as a transwoman, especially one who gets sexual satisfaction from this horrible act that he’s performing. Poor baby is all I can say. I cannot bear to think of the life it will be forced to endure when both parents, evidently put their own wants before its needs 😟

Pasithea · 21/05/2022 17:45

How??????? why?.....
who gave birth surely a trans male to female can’t just suddenly produce milk in any quantity or quality that would be required.

Squiff70 · 21/05/2022 17:38

If people support this madness under the guise of being supportive of trans people then they need rockets up their arses. It's disgusting. There's absolutely NO need for a trans woman to try breastfeeding a baby. Say what the hell you like but this is NOT for the benefit of the child in the slightest. It's purely selfish and disturbing. The parents, regardless of their biological sex or the one they may have transitioned to, wanted this in the media and consented to the publication of the photos. Why?

It's fucked up. Poor baby.

Clymene · 21/05/2022 17:35

Can you stop with the fucking offensive 'born-women' @PenelopePipPip

It's women. We don't need a prefix.

FunnyTalks · 21/05/2022 17:31

SabiRiver · 21/05/2022 14:58

Imagine if they induced lactation in Bulls. How many people would be happy adding chemically induced secretions to their cuppa in the morning?

This x 1000

cont · 21/05/2022 17:31

PenelopePipPip · 21/05/2022 16:37

@HermioneKipper not at all. I am just struggling to see the distinction between my case and the case reports cited here, whcih are the ones which are reported. Presumably there is a larger population of TW either seeking medical advice but the outcome not getting reported, or not seeking medical advice and following a protocol anyway. So its premature to conclude that TW can only produce a teaspoon of milk and that this is non-nutritive.

Evem if it is non-nutritive it may have positive benefits for the baby's immune system when given in conjunction with supplementary formula.

Either way breast-feeding promotes bonding between parent and child and improves parental MH both of which are good outcomes for women and TW.

The argument that it must be dangerous because there are chemicals in it and this makes it different to born-women's breastmilk makes little sense if born-women are encouraged to feed breastmilk full of chemicals (I was).

The argument that born-women are taking 'carefully managed meds' whilst TW are taking 'a cocktail of cross sex hormones' makes little sense if in both cases the drugs are prescribed and overseen by a specialist. As someone who has now been seen by a range of NHS specialisms I can assure you specialists may manage the meds they prescribe but no one ever 'carefully manages' the whole cocktail or clusterfuck of pills they are on apart from the patient.

If you object to people feeding chemical laced breast-secretions to babies with some but limited medical guidance that's your call. I don't feel offended but I am definitely one of those people and definitely a woman.

It's vile and unnecessary for a baby to feed a males nipple discharge, the end.

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