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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Times: Girl ‘driven out of school for questioning trans ideology’

292 replies

ResisterRex · 17/05/2022 05:37

This seems to be a clear failure on the part of all adults involved, if what's reported here is accurate:

Girl ‘driven out of school for questioning trans ideology’

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/50aac934-d539-11ec-8585-951ab3afb4d2?shareToken=d55c6d8482ff6dde48eb9c33de693f54

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Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 07/06/2022 09:35

Reviving this thread because Julie Bindel has interviewed the girl at length. It sounds even worse now, hearing that she had been hospitalised for an eating disorder and the school (staff and pupils) knew all about that. t.co/LdcAE5r98O

MagnoliaTaint · 22/05/2022 18:27

Oh, everybody's bloody 'gender critical' apart from a tiny minority of extremists.

How many people actually, genuinely believe that you can change sex, that there are more than two sexes, that anyone is ever 'born in the wrong body'? I mean, really really?

ScreamingMeMe · 22/05/2022 18:25

Mandodari · 22/05/2022 18:22

He's too busy saying that the 'anti trans' movement has become radicalised because some ignorant cretin used a homophobic slur, not a transphobic slur, against him. Nobody should be abusing him because of his sexuality, that is unacceptable behaviour but he is now equating homophobia to people saying that sex matters.

Despite the fact that many LGB people are gender crictical.

Mandodari · 22/05/2022 18:22

He's too busy saying that the 'anti trans' movement has become radicalised because some ignorant cretin used a homophobic slur, not a transphobic slur, against him. Nobody should be abusing him because of his sexuality, that is unacceptable behaviour but he is now equating homophobia to people saying that sex matters.

MoltenLasagne · 22/05/2022 17:34

Any comment from LOJ now the Baroness has confirmed the case is not fictional? Or indeed the Guardian to confirm why they continually ignore his online bullying?

Clymene · 22/05/2022 16:49

Abitofalark · 22/05/2022 12:21

Clymene's link didn't work for me: Page Not Found.
There is a link posted by SpringCalling at 20 59 yesterday on the dedicated thread: I hope it works here
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4554037-sunday-times-gender-ideology-in-schools-perspective-from-a-teacher

Sorry!

Try this: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/teacher-reveals-how-schools-are-struggling-with-trans-rights-7068kn350

Although the article can also be found without a share token in the usual place.

Mandodari · 22/05/2022 16:12

It's like tgat old philosophical argument bout the tree in the forest isn't it.

If a school girl is bullied for questioning trans ideology and Owen Jones isn't around to see it, did it really happen?

ScreamingMeMe · 22/05/2022 15:29

What next for Owen Jones? Slither away quietly or have the racist mum on his YouTube channel.

MagnoliaTaint · 22/05/2022 15:29

Gosh, yes, this is an elaborate creation for a story that didn't happen.

Mandodari · 22/05/2022 14:41

If tge story is made up, there seems to be a lot of people coming forward to confirm it happened:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10841217/Baroness-trans-free-speech-row-pupil-DEFENDS-students-right-disagree-her.html

Abitofalark · 22/05/2022 12:21

Clymene's link didn't work for me: Page Not Found.
There is a link posted by SpringCalling at 20 59 yesterday on the dedicated thread: I hope it works here
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4554037-sunday-times-gender-ideology-in-schools-perspective-from-a-teacher

CruCru · 22/05/2022 11:51

Gosh, I should think the school are desperate for this story to disappear from the papers. I wonder how long it will run for?

Clymene · 22/05/2022 09:11

Another article in the Times today about how schools are bowing to pressure from rabid teens to affirm gender identity

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/teacher-reveals-how-schools-are-struggling-with-trans-rights-7068kn350

BootsAndRoots · 21/05/2022 17:35

Must be horrendous for this girl at her age to have it all debated in public, and for a lot of adults (who should know better) to essentially gaslight her. What message does that send out about society?

RoobarbandCustud · 21/05/2022 14:52

My 17 yo DD has GC views. Although they don't talk openly about it, she knows some of her friends do too. The zealots take all the space, my DD thinks they are from families where there is less interest in politics and the world around them, from socially conservative families, they tend to be conformists, some of their parents politely shunned my female birth partner and I at antenatal classes (not because they were homophobic but they felt awkward).

Abitofalark · 21/05/2022 14:46

RoyalCorgi · 18/05/2022 12:05

And Joanna Williams in Spiked knows who the Baroness is:

I wonder how she knows this. She got one important detail wrong - she starts by saying that the incident happened a few weeks ago, but later that the girl left in December.

The original article posted on Transgender Trend on 13 May, which I have just seen for the first time, states:

"One such event occurred a few weeks ago at the girls secondary school where I teach. This happened after an ‘educational’ visit to a 6th form PSHE session of a member of the House of Lords."

It is a reasonable assumption that Joanna Williams took that from the article.

Tanith · 21/05/2022 13:52

FannyCann · 21/05/2022 07:58

I'm surprised parents aren't pushing back at the school over this. It's a private girls school - why are they paying for their girls to be Stonewalled like this.

If it's the school I think it is, it's a high achieving one and the competition for places is fierce. Parents won't want to risk their daughters' places after all the effort to get them in. They'll see Stonewall as just a small part of the whole.

Just look at how many parents willingly tutor their children for schools where intense pressure and related eating disorders are known to be a problem

Ellie56 · 21/05/2022 13:32

What a bloody awful school. And parents are actually paying for this?

If I had a daughter there I'd be removing her sharpish.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/05/2022 13:31

I think they briefly took it down to add in the bit about JKR retweeting but then put it back up.

Ah thanks Clymene.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/05/2022 13:30

hate the way OJ has made this all about himself though. His own moral crusade. He’s got a video up about how he will not be hounded out of his job, how he will always stand up for trans rights etc…

Me too.

Humbold · 21/05/2022 13:25

This is all horrendous. I’m sorry there are schoolchildren caught up in this. I feel for the victim, I feel for some of the girls who rounded on her. Perhaps some of them probably didn’t realise how intimidating it must have felt for the girl - perhaps they thought they were being ‘passionate’. Perhaps they thought that her lack of belief in their own particular world view that being either sex is something you ‘feel’ your way into, was ‘cruel’ or ‘bigoted’ rather than a different belief system. Perhaps some had been bolstered into a more aggressive display of anger against her by the type of ‘activist’ that feels justified in donning balaclavas and physically intimidating and sometimes attacking women at pro-women protests. Or the lovely anime avatars pointing guns or brandishing pink and blue baseball bats. Perhaps their school had created an environment that didn’t encourage independent thought or had outsourced certain aspects of their teaching to organisations that hadn’t been thoroughly scrutinised.

I hate the way OJ has made this all about himself though. His own moral crusade. He’s got a video up about how he will not be hounded out of his job, how he will always stand up for trans rights etc… He thinks that anyone who dares not share his belief that trans rights do not have any potential negative affect on certain rights and protections for women, are exactly the same type of bigoted, violent, nasty people who beat him up on his birthday.

If this had been a trans child being harassed, bullied, isolated, intimidated for stating their own belief - by 60 children would he have sought so assiduously to conduct his own investigation? Would he come back to his Twitter and hold his hands up if his ‘investigations’ turn out to verify the story?

i think this young woman is brave and principled and I hope she is able to get through her A-levels and attend a university and go on to have a good career and life. She has the makings of an amazing person and I hope that once the immediate dreadfulness of this current situation passes, she will find the time to feel incredibly proud of herself. And I hope she gets contacted by some of the girls and they apologise to her (and not just to get themselves out of a hole). And I hope the senior leadership team at the school examine their consciences and ask themselves whether they are creating a climate in their school where their young women can have open, honest and respectful debates.

Datun · 21/05/2022 12:42

I mean, it's not as if Robin isn't actually attending a tribunal where a woman is suing her own company for freezing her out and treating her badly because of her views!

Kathleen Stock, Maya Forstater, Raquel Rosario Sanchez, the list is endless.

Acting like it's not happening is just weird.

Clymene · 21/05/2022 12:37

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/05/2022 12:29

And the Times hasn't taken it down.

I think they briefly took it down to add in the bit about JKR retweeting but then put it back up. I'm guessing some people are hoping that their followers won't bother to check further. Generally people trust legal professionals not to perpetuate untruths.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/05/2022 12:29

And the Times hasn't taken it down.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/05/2022 12:25

Where has it "turned out" to be a fantasy then? Owen Jones disbelieving it doesn't have any bearing on its truth or falsehood. Is Robin privy to some evidence the rest of us haven't been made aware of?