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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 2

1004 replies

ickky · 03/05/2022 15:13

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal
select the video and mic that are not crossed out, this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, barrister for SW
RW = Robin White assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 1 👇

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
GrimDamnFanjo · 05/05/2022 01:09

So much to read in that bundle!
Shocked at how GC treated one of their own.
The stonewall info reads like they are a student union.

I'm so hoping that we meet more of the GC team at the tribunal...

TheBiologyStupid · 05/05/2022 00:41

Some news coverage by the BBC (but nothing in The Grauniad, naturally...): www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61326359

Mollyollydolly · 05/05/2022 00:29

I cant get it out of my head since I finished reading it. The way they treated her, threw her under the bus indeed. My anger is now at boiling point - she must win. I can't quite believe what she was put through by the best legal minds in the land. It's beyond belief. Diversity and inclusion my arse, they should have lauded her, instead they crucified her. Familiar names popping up too Drummond, Jones etc. Just donated again.

TheBiologyStupid · 05/05/2022 00:07

tabbycatstripy · 04/05/2022 21:11

Having read her whole witness statement, I reverse my position and think she's got them.

Yes, just finished reading it myself. Devastating - can't wait for BC to take SW and GC(C) through it.

CriticalCondition · 04/05/2022 23:25

That is very interesting, Jules. Thanks for posting it.
😫Oh, the irony in the comments that at least the CEO is now a woman 'which can't do any harm'.

JulesRimetStillGleaming · 04/05/2022 23:05

This was the thing I was referring to earlier. It's an account of a meeting held by Stonewall with trans activists. It's very interesting to see the options they were considering and to wonder how things might've been very different.

www.complicity.co.uk/blog/2014/08/transstonewall-the-meeting/

Ereshkigalangcleg · 04/05/2022 22:54

Another one who's read her statement - what an incredible woman - and this is who the wealthy charity Stonewall and a law firm tried to destroy. Unbelievable.

Same. So brave to waive her legal anonymity and talk about her abuse when she was a child. And she's worked so hard to get where she is.

MrLueHasALovelyQuiff · 04/05/2022 22:51

I just felt compelled to change my user name.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 04/05/2022 22:38

Another one who's read her statement - what an incredible woman - and this is who the wealthy charity Stonewall and a law firm tried to destroy. Unbelievable.

TensionWheelsCooIHeels · 04/05/2022 22:21

tabbycatstripy · 04/05/2022 21:11

Having read her whole witness statement, I reverse my position and think she's got them.

Me too.

My jaw is actually sore from being wedged to the floor reading it. Unbelievable behaviour by her chambers.

I really hope we hear from Michelle Brewer & Stephanie Harrison. Ben will need to be on his top game for them.

TensionWheelsCooIHeels · 04/05/2022 22:17

Mollyollydolly · 04/05/2022 21:34

Allison's statement is well worth a read. She really is a remarkable woman. Overcome so much adversity and still fighting. I admire her so much.

I've just finished it - it's jaw dropping. Lots of details I wasn't aware of but I'm absolutely gobsmacked at the conduct of a barrister's chambers over 2 tweets. It's like Maya's employer on steriods. They're supposed to be highly intelligent well educated people!!!!

Talcum X gets another mention for inducing a pile on, against another GC woman.

Bit of a pattern developing...

okifyoureallythinkso · 04/05/2022 21:40

£545k that’s incredible. Off to donate some more. I hope she knows how many of us are cheering her on.

tabbycatstripy · 04/05/2022 21:35

And I include in that any sexual orientation. If someone is attracted to female-presenting people, that's a sexual orientation and is also protected.

tabbycatstripy · 04/05/2022 21:34

waves to Ann

I know, Ann, it doesn't seem like it would be an obvious detriment, but in fact it is. Sexual orientation is a protected characteristic. If your public discussion of your actual sexual orientation is regarded as bigoted by your employer, such that it affects you at work, I can't see that that isn't a detriment. AB's actual sexual orientation is towards female people, not people who present as female.

Mollyollydolly · 04/05/2022 21:34

Allison's statement is well worth a read. She really is a remarkable woman. Overcome so much adversity and still fighting. I admire her so much.

tabbycatstripy · 04/05/2022 21:11

Having read her whole witness statement, I reverse my position and think she's got them.

tabbycatstripy · 04/05/2022 21:08

Nearly all the support for AB (unsolicited by her) emailed to GCC was from women.

JulesRimetStillGleaming · 04/05/2022 20:48

Binglebong · 04/05/2022 20:41

Will the make up of donors be admissible as evidence of being more female support than male?

I nearly made that comment alongside my donation but I'm not a lesbian so didn't want to skew the statistics Grin

Binglebong · 04/05/2022 20:41

Will the make up of donors be admissible as evidence of being more female support than male?

tabbycatstripy · 04/05/2022 19:48

'Is Michelle Brewer going to be a witness? I wouldn't be surprised if in this case she will be an Ellen Mackenzie type figure (a key player from the Maya Forstater tribunal).'

I don't know. She doesn't work for them anymore so I don't know whether they can make her testify? I'm not sure how that all works.

tabbycatstripy · 04/05/2022 19:47

'That's really interesting, Tabby, thanks for that. So it appears that not only were SW and GCC triangulating in order to discriminate but AB has provided the evidence to prove it. (Isn't that what a lot of the delay has been about - waiting on late disclosure on the part of the respondants, and then having to go through it all at a rate of knots?)'

I think the evidence is strongly indicative of that for at least one GCC employee.

SpindleInTheWind · 04/05/2022 19:31

TheBiologyStupid · 04/05/2022 19:27

Yup, I believe that if two £50k donations are excluded it averages out at about £50 quid a head.

Which is an amazing 8,900 donations

SpindleInTheWind · 04/05/2022 19:29

tabbycatstripy · 04/05/2022 18:59

AB's statement explains how Stonewall were encouraged by a member of or members of GCC (probably via Michelle Brewer) to make the complaints to GCC about AB's tweets. The meeting at which this encouragement was communicated took place at GCC. It was minuted by a member of the Stonewall Trans Advisory Group that the group was encouraged to complain about AB. That member of the Stonewall Trans Advisory Group also advised the 'community' that a meeting was taking place to decide on formal action against AB. That information could only have come from GCC.

So this is looking a lot stronger in light of this evidence.

Michelle Brewer became a full-time judge.

That's really interesting, Tabby, thanks for that. So it appears that not only were SW and GCC triangulating in order to discriminate but AB has provided the evidence to prove it. (Isn't that what a lot of the delay has been about - waiting on late disclosure on the part of the respondants, and then having to go through it all at a rate of knots?)

TheBiologyStupid · 04/05/2022 19:27

SpindleInTheWind · 04/05/2022 19:23

Wow, £545k. That's thousands upon thousands of supporters donating.

Yup, I believe that if two £50k donations are excluded it averages out at about £50 quid a head.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 04/05/2022 19:25

nauticant · 04/05/2022 19:18

Is Michelle Brewer going to be a witness? I wouldn't be surprised if in this case she will be an Ellen Mackenzie type figure (a key player from the Maya Forstater tribunal).

In my mind, EM will always be Macavity.

Macavity, Macavity, there's no one like Macavity,
For he's a fiend in feline shape, a monster of depravity.
You may meet him in a by-street, you may see him in the square-
But when a crime's discovered, then Macavity's not there!

He's outwardly respectable. (They say he cheats at cards.)
And his footprints are not found in any file of Scotland Yard's
And when the larder's looted, or the jewel-case is rifled,
Or when the milk is missing, or another Peke's been stifled,
Or the greenhouse glass is broken, and the trellis past repair
Ay, there's the wonder of the thing! Macavity's not there!

And when the Foreign Office find a Treaty's gone astray,
Or the Admiralty lose some plans and drawings by the way,
There may be a scrap of paper in the hall or on the stair-
But it's useless to investigate-Macavity's not there!
And when the loss has been disclosed, the Secret Service say:
It must have been Macavity!'-but he's a mile away.

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