Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 2

And yet we are the Nazis.

It's like 1930s Germany. Informers and everyone needing to be scared and alert all the time that some self righteous bigot doesn't report you for breathing wrong.

That was a jaw dropping moment for me too, Manderley. Allison must be utterly devastated that people she had thought were friends were secretly betraying her.

The thing that made my jaw drop in the witness statement was the male barrister who shared her office, apparently on good terms with her, over-hearing conversations she had on the phone. He reporting on them to seniors in Chambers because he didnt approve of the subjects she spoke about. While saying nothing to her about it. Like an informant in the DDR.
She only found out in disclosure.

"Heterosexual males" - you mean "Stonewall-approved lesbians", surely?!

I was pro T until that meant that gender trumps sex and Stonewall started being blatantly homophobic. I still maintain that's because heterosexual males have infiltrated Stonewall and pushed their agenda and not all LGB people have realised the implications of that yet.

Yes, unfortunately I agree with this. From my experience, gay and lesbian people I know in real life are very much pro T.
I tend to think it is them sympathising with another minority group that they feel an affinity with, so it's coming from a place of good faith. I just can't get my head around why any lesbian would be supporting of something that is clearly trying to erase them.

I'm aware of that, but all of my gay and lesbian real life friends are squarely 'lgb with the t' and very anti-gc so it's not true that it's just heterosexual males.

It's not the community that have turned on her. The "community" as represented by what was its leading champion, has been infiltrated by heterosexual males. The original community then left and started their own communities (much of it on Mumsnet). Many LGB people are squarely behind her and cheering her on.

In fact, there are numerous examples where information magically appears having previously not been handed over...

Have you looked at WOB (World of Books) Embarrassing? They buy and sell used books. I usually charity shop mine but I might try and sell some to raise money for a good cause like this.

It's at times like this that I wish my household were organised enough to cope with eBay selling or similar. I have books to donate to a charity shop. I'd happily sell them via something to raise money for AB until I can make another donation.

In reality, I'm horribly alarmed at all the bad experiences of eBay and Amazon sellers so I'm too much of a wimp to cope with that and my disorganised household. I could sell them via Magpie etc. but that seems to be approx. 50p a book (although easy to do).

I'm part way through Allison's witness statement too. She is magnificent and if I could donate again I would.

I will buy her book once this is over too. I hope she writes one.

But self-ID ing as good and decent doesn't mean you are really good and decent.

As the suffragettes would say 'deeds not words'.

The deeds definitely paint a very different (one might argue opposite) picture to the words.

I've made a start in reading Allison Bailey's witness statement and I am just bowled over by what an amazing woman she is. The challenges she has faced with resilience and resolve put most of us to shame. She is truly an awesome human being. The fact that the community which, in her words, saved her life, has turned on her must be utterly devastating.

Despite being insanely long the statement statement very readable and fascinating. Allison should write a memoir when all this is over.

Yes, about disclosing documents. They didn't seem (to a layperson) to be very forthcoming with the handing over of documents. One could be cynical about this and think that if you didn't know about it, they weren't going to enlighten you or flag it's existence.

And, these people promote themselves as good and decent!

Well, when you are ahead of the law, you have no reason to comply.

It does make me wonder what the point of a subject access request is if there is nobody there to take action if they are not properly responded to. It all makes a mockery of the system.

Only a short way into this but fuck me, this woman is amazing. What she has been through and what she has achieved, her strength.....I'm blown away.

I have a legal question. It appears that GC and SW did not disclose all of the documents they should have, both in response to the subject access request and during court disclosure. Is there going to be any consequence of this? Is it just that it looks bad and damages their case or could they be, I don't know, in contempt of court or something for deliberately not disclosing what they should have?

Oh hell yeah.

Code words: 'I'm expecting an Iceland delivery'; 'put another sod on the fire, love and open the Icelandic vodka'.

Just perfect.

Would surf and turf snacks be served to the terven?

Several people seem to have got this person's number. He/she's just been accused of doing all this on Stonewall's payroll.

I'm thinking I need me one of these beauties to thrown open to my sisters

I was just thinking this. Why should the LB women lose their group? Surely they can meet each other without the TW in private homes? It's not ideal but better than no group at all or one dominated by an entitled male.

Men have made the mistake of thinking we are a push over - if they ever gave it a thought at all

I really think this probably nails it- that there is no real thought.

There's a belief of primacy of entitlement. If male people want it they should have it and female people should give it to them

There's the terra nullis belief - anything female people do that isn't relevant to or benefitting male people is a waste of time and space. It's no use to anyone. And so is available to be taken over and put to better use.

Underpinning it is exactly the attitude Pluvia describes. That females aren't real people, their needs aren't as important as male people's needs, that them wanting to have things for themselves, talk amongst themselves - at best it's a bit tedious and pointless, at worst its selfish exclusion and hoarding of resources that by rights should be being used by males.

And females drawing attention to this is threatening and unpleasant behaviour. Talk about male violence for example, about women in DV need, about anything that is an exclusive female issue and you're instantly reminded that this affects male people too, it's mean not to include them, and they probably have it worst. If you do a lot of lipservice to how much you care about male people you may be allowed to briefly talk about female needs and challenges without being shouted down and dismissed.

It has taken me five decades to understand what a very, very serious problem females have in the UK and how deep and severe this unconscious sexism is.