AIBU? Trans friend....

On one hand, I'm a "TERF" for wanting to protect women's sport and safe spaces. On the other hand, I'm a TRA, an idiot and a mysoginist apologist for not insisting on calling trans women MALE NARCISSIST PERVERTS in all caps.

And it's always, always the women who are most damaged. It really is that black and white. Women including Hijabi wearing Muslim women are the oppressed sex. A transwoman has male privilege and is the aggressor, violator and intruder.

@Cheetocat

Where have you been living in the last century?
Some men get a massive kick out of perving on women in the toilets.
I could mention names but that would get my post deleted, come on over to fwr and have your mind blown

Start here
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread

A transwoman is a male bodied person with a penis and testicles and male DNA and chromosomes.

A male is a male bodied person with a penis and testicles and male DNA and chromosomes.

Transwomen are MEN. M.E.N.

They have a PENIS!

They are MEN.

How far indoctrinated and brainwashed do you need to be to see a penis and testicles and not see a man!? You're in denial of science, of biology, of biochemistry, of everything.

The last transwoman I spoke to was the gentlest person I’ve ever met. She actually avoids public toilets or goes in the disabled as doesn’t want to make biological woman feel uncomfortable. This is what most transwomen are like.

Then you've proved our point, and you are too far down the rabbit hole and busy twisting with mental gymnastics to see it. The transwomen you know, KNOW THEY ARE MEN. Thats why they don't go into the women's toilets. They KNOW they are not women. So why are you contradicting yourself by saying there is a difference between men and transwomen, when even the transwomen you know acknowledge there is no different? Rather confused aren't you, to the extent you contradict yourself in the same post, and prove our point. Have a long hard look at your post and really think about the mental gymnastics you used, in order to simply prove our point that there is no difference between men and transwomen! You said it yourself with your friends example!

We are not talking about a man, we are talking about a transwoman. If you can’t see the difference then it is a little bit sad.

Can you explain how a transwoman is just like a woman and not at all like a man?

Interesting that.

How about 'lets find answers that work equally for everyone?'

At the end of the day, most of society will look at who is the most damaged by the situation at hand.

Is it likely to be this male person in a sundress and heels, or the women whose privacy and dignity is violated and don't feel secure in female only spaces, do you think?

Yes, this is totally hijacking your plans to use you and the night as a vehicle to service this person's purpose, and yes, it may well put you in some very awkward positions.

The whole reason the EHRC are continually asked to provide guidance around single sex spaces is that it is not working because to include male people into facilities that were created for female people excludes some female people. It's not inclusive at all. The only argument to this is that those female people don't matter. But many female people feel very uncomfortable enabling and supporting a male to do something which may negatively affect other females in that space, which those female people may be afraid to do anything but leave and have access to nothing at all so a male person can take their choice of which of all their available facilities they most wish to be in at the moment that suits them. The single sex exclusions should have enabled some balance with this, but have not been applied as they should have been because lobbyists and activists have tried to prevent them being used and repeatedly told everyone that they can't be used.

As a result, it hasn't worked for anyone. These issues aren't going away. And since the answer the lobbyists and activists want is that difficult females who can't put male people's needs and freedoms above their own just give up their claim to spaces and resources and services and accept having nothing? No, that one isn't going anywhere good or permanent either is it? Because which women are going to vote for that kind of male supremacist society in which some females get nothing so that some males can have choice of everything, and are embedded in law as more important and entitled? Also makes a total nonsense of trying to claim the whole reason for this is that sex isn't binary, because who wins and who loses is very very binary (and obviously sexist) indeed.

Anyway. The point is: this person needs to set up their own night for this big first. They need to invite people to join them specifically to support their night, their needs, because that is what the night will in essence be about. It is a bit thoughtless and entitled to want to do this using someone else's night out, and potentially to refocus them from being there to just relax and have fun themselves, to being there as support and back up. This runs the risk of not working well for anyone.

Ok @justaftb we can have different opinions about this. At the end of the day, most of society will look at who is the most damaged by the situation at hand. It’s not generally black and white.

Wow, someone not invited, by you, at least, telling you what words you can/can’t say and told you no photos! What other things are you going to be told you can/can’t do?
Do yourself a favour, stand up for what you want on your night out and say that under these new circumstances, you’d rather just go with your friend, or a different friend if she no longer wants to go but you’re not entertaining these conditions being forced on you!

That was my point.
The language chosen by the original poster manages to hide the sex, female (OP and friend) and male (friends friend).

This supports the idea that this male will be horribly abused in the male toilets and therefor the womens toilet must be offered as the only solution.

@justaftb spot on. Agree with every word. It's not transphobic to describe reality.

Completely agree @justaftb

OP I think you should go. Ignore Narc-in-a-Dress. Take lots and lots and lots of pics of you and your friend.

That would certainly be refreshing ,justaftb

If you can’t see the difference then it is a little bit sad.

The description of this person is in the OP. Can you help me to understand the difference between a biological male person saying they are a transwoman and another male person, both with or without a sundress and heels?

The last transwoman I spoke to was the gentlest person I’ve ever met. She actually avoids public toilets or goes in the disabled as doesn’t want to make biological woman feel uncomfortable. This is what most transwomen are like.

Sounds like he is a man who respects women's boundaries. Maybe he can coach other men who identify as trans to respect women's boundaries in the same way.

Men who identify as trans do not know what it is to be a woman as the only way you can know that is to be an adult human female. Men who identify as trans know as much about being a woman as men who do not identify as trans.

Growing your hair, wearing clothes that you stereotypically associate with women (and which many women never actually wear), castrating yourself by removing your penis and testicles, taking cross-sex hormones, none of this makes a man a woman. It simply makes a castrated man who takes cross-sex hormones and who likes to present as his idea of what a woman is.

It really isn't complicated. It is not transphobic to point out reality.

We are not talking about a man, we are talking about a transwoman

What’s the difference? Can you answer without resorting to stereotypes?

The last transwoman I spoke to was the gentlest person I’ve ever met. She actually avoids public toilets or goes in the disabled as doesn’t want to make biological woman feel uncomfortable. This is what most transwomen are like.

I am sorry, but if you agree with your transwoman friend that transwomen shouldn't use the female toilets, why is our saying the same transphobic?

no, I don’t like the idea of men coming into the ladies toilets. But you know what? Doesn’t really matter does it. We are not talking about a man, we are talking about a transwoman.

Whats the difference between a man and a transwoman?
Are they both male?

What a depressing thread.

For whoever it was replied to me above: no, I don’t like the idea of men coming into the ladies toilets. But you know what? Doesn’t really matter does it. We are not talking about a man, we are talking about a transwoman. If you can’t see the difference then it is a little bit sad.

The last transwoman I spoke to was the gentlest person I’ve ever met. She actually avoids public toilets or goes in the disabled as doesn’t want to make biological woman feel uncomfortable. This is what most transwomen are like. A lot of people on this thread really need to get a grip. I find it quite sad really as there used to be a sensible middle ground where you could be gender critical and suggest some things properly. Now it’s just a mess full of ridiculous comments and awful transphobia. You are never going to win with these attitudes. You’re just going to constantly distance yourself and it’ll only get worse.

Males still dont have to provide shelter and protection in their space (the theme continues, males will be violent to males in dresses)

So sort out the men. This is not women's problem!

10% of men do pose a threat to women. How do you sort the good from the bad, before it is too late? Any man who pushes boundaries is more likely than not to be one of the 10%.