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Original poster

AIBU? Trans friend....

609 replies

OrchardBlack · 21/03/2022 22:41

Have NC'd for this.

So a close friend of mine (female) and I booked tickets to an event in our town some time ago, due to take place in a few weeks. Both excited and looking forward to it , all good.

A few weeks ago she asks me if a male , straight friend of hers can also join, no problem, the more the merrier. I've never met him.

Except it now transpires that he has (quite suddenly from what I gather) said he is transitioning to be a woman and will use this night as his 'coming out'. He has messaged my friend saying that he's going to wear a sun dress and heels and he's nervous but excited too. He has also said we are to refer to him by his female name. My friend says he is currently in a relationship with a woman.

Now my friend is saying she is finding this all a lot to take on so suddenly as she's known him for many years as his male name and never even seen him with makeup on. I asked if he would be using the women's toilets on our night out, she doesn't know but I can only assume he is.

I feel very uncomfortable, as does my friend. I am fully supportive of people choosing to live how they wish, I just can't help feeling he's high-jacked our night. He isn't out as trans to any of his family etc so he has said no photos of the night etc. I'm also massively concerned that he is clearly still attracted to women and what this means for the safe spaces such as toilets etc.

She says she doesn't feel like she can talk to him about it and is concocting a plan to say she has covid and giving me my money back so we don't go. I'm dissapointed as I was looking forward to it.

AIBU to be deflated and a bit annoyed??

OP posts:
Delphinium20 · 22/03/2022 22:33

OP I'm very happy that you and your friend can enjoy your night out under the original plans!

theemperorhasnoclothes · 22/03/2022 22:22

@TheGreatATuin

This thread perfectly illustrates why we're in the mess we are in. If any man who didn't identify as trans came in and tried to hijack and dictate two women's evening like this, the vast majority of MN would be in agreement that it was full of red flags and boundary crossing. Instead, we have people coming in and telling those posters off for being transphobic. And then we have the 'this didn't happen' crew who'll then insist in the next breath that if it did happen, the problem is with the women for not being kind, whether the OP or us on the board. There is a single hard line here. Women have the right to say no, whether this is a real situation or a hypothetical one. We do not have to be kind to anyone who has no intention of being kind to us, and is taking advantage of us. If you are struggling with either of those things, then that is tough. You have no right to insist that women prioritise trans women's wants over their own boundaries and needs. None.
Yep. This.

Hijacking the night two women friends had planned for a long time, making it all about them, shows such breathtaking male entitlement it's quite funny really.

If it were just a normal bloke doing it, MN would be absolutely clear.

Put on a dress, and suddenly it's a different story for some - except it's really not.

I quite like men in dresses, I think they look cool. I don't think it shows a great degree of sanity when the person involved seems to think that wearing clothing traditionally associated with the opposite sex magically actually MAKES them the opposite sex.

Men in dresses are simply men in dresses. I wish more men would wear them and then there would be no need for any big narcissistic 'coming out' because it would be totally normal, just like women wearing trousers.

KimikosNightmare · 22/03/2022 21:52

@ClaryFairchild

Of course someone dressed as a woman will be using the women's toilets. I don't like to but can you imagine the abuse they will have if they enter that men's toilets?!
Why would they be abused? I doubt very much that any of the men I know who be anything other than mildly bemused at this.

I suppose if a trans woman who looked like Blaire White wandered in they might be a bit embarrassed and suggest Blaire was in the wrong loo - but for anyone not passing that well- mild bemusement.

SmallThingsEverywhere · 22/03/2022 21:40

That’s good news OP. Enjoy your night out!

oakleaffy · 22/03/2022 21:34

@OrchardBlack

Ok wow this has got so many responses I couldn't respond to all of them individually. Also to clarify quickly, I posted this in FWR board and not AIBU, MNHQ didn't move it, I just didn't know what else to title it!

@JayAlfredPrufrock - I'm happy to send you the screenshots of messages between my friend and I (and the one she sent me he sent to her) if you don't believe me.

Anyway, I have an update - after ruminating on it all day, my friend decided to message him and voice her concerns. Told him about it being something we were both looking forward to for a long time and she'd feel the same if he was making it into his birthday/anniversary night. Said she's worried its not the right night for it and it would be a big step and does he want to ensure his family/friends are all at least aware first.

He has kicked off and took offence that she called it a 'girls night'. Said he had thought she would be supportive. Has asked for his money back and told us to go alone.

So that is what we are doing!

Well that’s a relief. He sounds a bit insufferable. Hope you have a good time with your friend, untrammelled by drama.
beastlyslumber · 22/03/2022 21:20

Good outcome, OP. Enjoy your night out!

Midlifemusings · 22/03/2022 21:16

At some point there will be a first time that he goes out in different clothes / shoes with friends than he usually wears if that is an important part of transition to him and at some point he will ask people to use a different name.

Personally I don't care if anyone regardless of their sex wears shorts or pants or dresses or skirts. I wear whatever I want and feel most comfortable in and so should they. I don't think a man in a dress is hijacking or derailing an entire event. If I was at a concert / art show whatever and my friend's friend showed up in a dress it would not cause me the extreme distress that most on here seem to think they would feel at seeing someone of the male sex not in tradionally masculine clothing.

And if my friend's friend said hey I don't want any pictures of me because I am not out to my family, I have no issue respecting that. I wouldn't think that it had ruined my night to not be able to post pictures of my friend's friend on my social media.

For me, someone wearing clothing that isn't traditionally feminine or masculine and doens't align with their sex or someone asking to not have pictures of them posted are both things that wouldn't even really register so the extreme horror, disgust, distress expressed on here and how many people think seeing male legs in a dress would ruin their entire event and night out surprises me.

Op can just choose to not go if she can't cope with the horror she would feel at a person of the male sex not wearing masculine pants. She doesn't even know this person - policing what someone else wears because you have a rigid image of what men must wear and what women must wear is her problem.

Artichokeleaves · 22/03/2022 21:05

Really really bad idea to share identifying information with anyone at all on MN. Its data protection history is really not great, and that includes pms.

Turningpurple · 22/03/2022 21:00

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Quotes deleted post

Original poster
OrchardBlack · 22/03/2022 20:58

@JayAlfredPrufrock you clearly do care or you wouldn't have started troll hunting me. This is a very real, quite difficult situation I am in and I do not need you questioning my truthfulness. Now, if you really don't care as you say you don't, perhaps this isn't the thread for you.

OP posts:
JayAlfredPrufrock · 22/03/2022 20:53

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IvorCutler · 22/03/2022 20:51

Just want to add to my post that I have been followed into the ladies toilets and pushed into a cubicle by a cis male in a busy pub before and it was fucking terrifying. I was there with my husband and my fil and they actually laughed it off when I managed to get out and told them. I think the idea that there are actually safe spaces is a total misnomer.

Original poster
OrchardBlack · 22/03/2022 20:48

@Lockheart. Not a drip I'm afraid to dissapoint you. A further conversation tonight with my friend on the phone tonight because I've been at work all day, where she has told me this new information.

OP posts:
Original poster
OrchardBlack · 22/03/2022 20:47

@HailAdrian also happy to send you the screenshots if you don't believe me 👌

OP posts:
Lockheart · 22/03/2022 20:46

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Original poster
OrchardBlack · 22/03/2022 20:45

Oh I forgot to say. My friend has also told me that he has told her that when he split up from an ex girlfriend he stole a pair of her knickers and a dress of hers and would wear it regularly in his house, and he still has them. Has also said he will never get any surgery and will just change his gym workouts to 'feminise' his body. (He's apparently a big gym nut) I swear on my life that is what she told me he said.

So yeah there's definitely some unsavouriness to his particular transition journey, if that is indeed what he is doing.

OP posts:
PenStation · 22/03/2022 20:44

Have fun!

TheGreatATuin · 22/03/2022 20:44

@IvorCutler

I’m only on page 12 here, but on the matter of predatory males… they are going to act regardless of whether they’ve a guise surely? Choosing to become trans in order to prey on women seems an extraordinarily elaborate thing to do. I’m not saying it hasn’t happened but I’d like to see some stats on how common it actually is. I completely understand women wanting safe spaces, particularly if they’ve experienced harassment or assault previously, I’m just not sure that trans women are the right target (personally).
Men have joined the priesthood to get closer to victims. Some guy in Canada changed his birthday certificate to female to get cheaper car insurance. Men do all sorts of things because it advantages them. This is no different.
334bu · 22/03/2022 20:42

Have a great night.

Original poster
OrchardBlack · 22/03/2022 20:40

Ok wow this has got so many responses I couldn't respond to all of them individually. Also to clarify quickly, I posted this in FWR board and not AIBU, MNHQ didn't move it, I just didn't know what else to title it!

@JayAlfredPrufrock - I'm happy to send you the screenshots of messages between my friend and I (and the one she sent me he sent to her) if you don't believe me.

Anyway, I have an update - after ruminating on it all day, my friend decided to message him and voice her concerns. Told him about it being something we were both looking forward to for a long time and she'd feel the same if he was making it into his birthday/anniversary night. Said she's worried its not the right night for it and it would be a big step and does he want to ensure his family/friends are all at least aware first.

He has kicked off and took offence that she called it a 'girls night'. Said he had thought she would be supportive. Has asked for his money back and told us to go alone.

So that is what we are doing!

OP posts:
TheGreatATuin · 22/03/2022 20:39

This thread perfectly illustrates why we're in the mess we are in.
If any man who didn't identify as trans came in and tried to hijack and dictate two women's evening like this, the vast majority of MN would be in agreement that it was full of red flags and boundary crossing.
Instead, we have people coming in and telling those posters off for being transphobic.
And then we have the 'this didn't happen' crew who'll then insist in the next breath that if it did happen, the problem is with the women for not being kind, whether the OP or us on the board.
There is a single hard line here.
Women have the right to say no, whether this is a real situation or a hypothetical one.
We do not have to be kind to anyone who has no intention of being kind to us, and is taking advantage of us.
If you are struggling with either of those things, then that is tough. You have no right to insist that women prioritise trans women's wants over their own boundaries and needs. None.

IvorCutler · 22/03/2022 20:30

I’m only on page 12 here, but on the matter of predatory males… they are going to act regardless of whether they’ve a guise surely? Choosing to become trans in order to prey on women seems an extraordinarily elaborate thing to do. I’m not saying it hasn’t happened but I’d like to see some stats on how common it actually is. I completely understand women wanting safe spaces, particularly if they’ve experienced harassment or assault previously, I’m just not sure that trans women are the right target (personally).

Terfydactyl · 22/03/2022 20:25

@Joinedforthis22

Seriously this is just one side screaming transgender and the other screaming homophobe and those of us in the middle being labeled either for asking questions in an attempt to understand this new and baffling world.

I understand it's an emotive issue but educating is the way not reporting and shouting down who you view as your opponent.

Enjoy the bun fight you've created OP, I think that was potentially what you wanted.

What would you like educating on?

Heres a great start
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread

Enough4me · 22/03/2022 20:19

Regardless of whether this situation is real or not. Men are using women's facilities, raping women on women's wards and winning women's races.

If no men took these actions while pretending to be women, the issues would not exist.

JayAlfredPrufrock · 22/03/2022 20:04

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