JK Rowling article

Hmm, I've just returned after a week's suspension from MN for being rude so I have to be very careful what I say. However, if you are going to damn people for guilt by association, I recommend you take a very careful look at the histories of some of the people on the trans activist side.

More boringly, the vast majority of gender-critical feminists in the UK are on the left, with long histories of activism in the Labour Party and trade union movement.

I find it very concerning that the gender critical movement is so closely aligned with people wishing to roll back abortion rights, promote misogynistic viewpoints and homophobia.

I find it absurd that some activists haven't realised just how those pushing 'gender identity' are misogynistic and homophobic. And who wish to control the language women use around abortion and female health.

Let's see now:

misogynistic

Here is a very current thread discussing a document supposedly published to support teenaged and young transitioned females. The very concept that these females should be recommended to provide oral sex for males while not receiving any sexual pleasure in return is misogynistic, no? And that they could turn to sex work to fund their mastectomies?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4503838-NHS-booklet-promotes-prostitution-and-sex-by-deception

Shall I find some more links?

homophobic

How about Nancy Kelley

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4385007-BBC-article-about-cotton-ceiling

Here saying to lesbians:

“Nobody should ever be pressured into dating, or pressured into dating people they aren't attracted to. But if you find that when dating, you are writing off entire groups of people, like people of colour, fat people, disabled people or trans people, then it's worth considering how societal prejudices may have shaped your attractions.“

Shall I find some more links? I mean .... this is the CEO of Stonewall and a lesbian herself saying this.

control over language

For expediency, here is another current thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4505835-Most-bleeders-know-how-they-are-impacted-by-their-period

A new brand of tampons calling women and girls 'bleeders' and very proud they are of doing that too. The CEO and founder doubled down to say so.

But I am sure I remember something about 'people who need abortions' and other controlling language that creates ambiguity and lack of focus, I am happy to provide links for that.

Oh this again...

Here's some names to conjure with from the genderist side:

Gordon Pike - convicted for images of CSA and responsible for the placing of males in women's prisons if they speak the magic gender identity words.

James Rennie - Chief Executive of LGBT Youth Scotland, convicted child sex offender and part of one of the worst paedophile rings ever to come to light in Scotland

Tara Hewitt - A Catholic anti abortionist involved with training NHS workers on trans issues.

Edward Lord OBE - non binary FreeMason who campaigned to have single sex spaces removed from City Of London who described Dr. Ken Plummer. a paedophile advocate and member of PIE, as "a hero".

Shall I go on, we can play all night...

Also from that article

No less a figure than Tony Blair has warned, “Keeping your head down is not a strategy.” He went on to say:

“On cultural issues, one after another, the Labour Party is being backed into electorally off-putting positions. A progressive party seeking power which looks askance at the likes of Trevor Phillips, Sara Khan or J.K. Rowling is not going to win.”^

Yvette Cooper, Shadow Home Secretary and one of Labour’s most experienced frontbenchers, nevertheless sought, the other day, to keep her head down,saying when asked to define a woman:

“I think people get themselves down rabbit holes on this one…I’m not going to get into rabbit holes on this…As you can see I’m avoiding going down rabbit holes because I just think this is pointless.”

Tony Blair won three elections. Whatever your views on Iraq, he was a successful domestic politician. Labour's current strategy has not been.

Have we had enough cucumber sandwiches yet?

Amazing the depths some have to go to to try and paint GC as baddies - cucumber loving fascists is definitely a new low.

I find it very concerning that the gender critical movement is so closely aligned with people wishing to roll back abortion rights, promote misogynistic viewpoints and homophobia.

I find it very concerning that the gender ideology movement draws false parallels between access to abortion, and puberty blockers and CSHs. Presumably to threaten women and to convince the naive that such a parallel can in fact be drawn.

I find it very concerning that the gender ideology movement promotes misogyny through expanding the definition of gender reassignment to include cross-dressing males who then say they're entitled to our spaces and are supported by unlawful, captured HR policies that promote reporting employees who won't implement said unlawful policy.

I find it very concerning that the gender ideology movement promotes homophobia by describing socially constructed, gender non-conforming behaviour as meaning a female same-sex attracted child is "really trans", coercing her to deny being lesbian and setting her on the path of irreversible damage.

But there we are.

Lord knows why you are bringing homophobia into this, Elaine.

Because they fail to realise just how homophobic the gender identity movement is when you start looking at it with a critical eye.

Imagine if a poster on this board said something and it was picked up by an extreme trans activist to support something they believed in... like trying to associate feminists with nazis. Is that poster supporting that activist? Working with them?

Or is it just some person using something that someone else wrote and illustrating a point. Such as some people like cucumber sandwiches. Some of those people are feminists. Some of those people are trans. Some of those people are fascists. If they all went to a cucumber sandwich convention run by the trans people, and everyone left except the trans people and fascists, what conclusions could be drawn?

And would that be relevant at all?

No? Why the fuck do you think your 'gotcha' is so compelling to anyone outside your own group?

It is laughable.

Youre trying again to cloak the fact that you're accusing feminists of being 'fascists', Elaine.

It just looks a bit silly, tbh. While I may be guilty of various things, I know myself well enough to know that fascism is just not something I am associated with or even remotely interested in. And I know that the feminists and women who share my views on gender ideology are about as far from fascists as it's actually possible to be.

Accusing lefties of being 'fascists' for wrong think used to work, because some gentle, concerned and well meaning people concerned about doing the right thing would be worried that they had somehow accidentally wandered into some kind of dark and shifty movement.

Feminists tend to be concerned about morality and doing the right thing. But the thing is that we now recognise this as yet another weak attempt to gaslight and undermine us. It doesn't work anymore.

This is pretty much my argument though, the GC movement is happy to work with those with abominable attitudes towards women's rights, as long as they hate trans people. (in general, maybe not you specifically).

Just who is 'working' with these people exactly?

Any person can take someone's work and use it to support anything. It doesn't mean that the person 'supports' the usage of their words. Any fool knows this.

This is a very blatant tactic to attempt to get women to stop talking about something you disagree with. Why should Joanne Rowling stop stating her opinion on something? Will you stop giving your opinion just in case someone uses it for a purpose that you don't fully support? How about if they use it for something you don't support at all?

Is is merely coincidence?

Or does it stop being coincidental when someone who dislikes cucumber sandwiches notices?

Can I prevent any Nazi from liking cucumber sandwiches?

Can I prevent someone who does not like cucumber sandwiches from searching out unpleasant people who do like cucumber sandwiches?

What power do I, as one who does like cucumber sandwiches, have over who else is allowed to like cucumber sandwiches?

Have we had enough cucumber sandwiches yet?

That's exactly what I'm saying though. There are reprehensible people with whom we all share opinions, there are nazis who enjoy cucumber sandwiches. It doesn't mean that those who like cucumber sandwiches are nazis. HOWEVER, if I invite this nazi to my cucumber sandwich convention, it sends the message: "I can tolerate fascism, as long as the fascist enjoys some of the same things I do", tolerating fascism is tantamount to being fascist oneself. Before you know it, all the cucumber sandwich lovers who can't tolerate nazis will leave, and you'll be left with a nazi convention.

So, having Peter Tatchell as a very prominent campaigner, even going into schools for trans people doesn't cause you to stop and take stock. That a man who has written supportive statements about intergenerational sex and supported an underage marriage even is nothing to worry about.

I really think that you need to do some research on the people who are advocating for the lowering of all boundaries, but particularly sexual boundaries for children, and women before you keep bringing this up.

I am very happy to keep bringing up people that are integral to the gender identity movement and I am sure others are too.

As I said, readers then go off and research for themselves just who is who and what that person believes and their other issues they support. It is very enlightening.

Rowling speaks as a woman of the Left. She is a friend of Sarah and Gordon Brown, and gave the Labour Party a million pounds when he was leader.

Nobody could accuse her of being pro-Tory. Harry Potter, her most famous creation, spends his holidays being persecuted by the ghastly Dursley family, who live in Privet Drive and readThe Daily Mail.

She has said that in 1994-95 – when as an impoverished single mother, having fled with her daughter, Jessica (named after Mitford) from her short and abusive first marriage, she was writing her first Potter book – it was Labour’s proposals for lifting single parents out of poverty which appealed to her, and Tory moralising about marriage which disgusted her.

Before the 2010 general election she wrotea piece forThe Timesin which she said that since becoming rich, as she did soon after her first book was published in 1997, she had not changed her mind. She still could not stand the Tories.

During the Barnard Castle affair in May 2020, when Boris Johnson stuck by his adviser Dominic Cummings, the official Civil Service Twitter account published a tweet which described the Government as “Arrogant and offensive”, and asked: “Can you imagine having to work with these truth twisters?”

Rowlingwished to know the nameof the official who had posted this rapidly suppressed tweet, so she could pay him or her a year’s salary. She denounced Cummings’ “indefensible hypocrisy” and described Johnson’s behaviour as “despicable”.

While the trans row is not at the front of the public’s mind, it poses a mortal danger for Labour, opposing as it does two groups which believe themselves to be in exclusive possession of the truth, while their opponents are plunged in unforgiveable error.

Good description.

JK also recognises a controlling relationship when she sees one. Like the man who splits up with you, gets with someone new and then continues to stalk you to check up whom you've been seen with.

I have never heard of Matt Walsh or Vaush, or knowingly read anything by Owen Jones or Julie Bindel.

I do know though that my friends' father is (obviously!) not female, whatever the new name and hairstyle, and that my cousin's child is not male, despite the mastectomy.

There is no need to be left or right or centre-ground, or to have read deeply into the debate, to be able to recognise sex, know that it cannot change despite the legal fiction, and think it matters.

Lord knows why you are bringing homophobia into this, Elaine.

You can go take it up with the University of York, for a start.

That's exactly what I'm saying though. There are reprehensible people with whom we all share opinions, there are nazis who enjoy cucumber sandwiches. It doesn't mean that those who like cucumber sandwiches are nazis. HOWEVER, if I invite this nazi to my cucumber sandwich convention, it sends the message: "I can tolerate fascism, as long as the fascist enjoys some of the same things I do", tolerating fascism is tantamount to being fascist oneself. Before you know it, all the cucumber sandwich lovers who can't tolerate nazis will leave, and you'll be left with a nazi convention.

This is no doubt the path that the GC movement will go down if you leave space for anti-women fascists (for example Matt Walsh).

This jumped out at me.

“While the trans row is not at the front of the public’s mind, it poses a mortal danger for Labour, opposing as it does two groups which believe themselves to be in exclusive possession of the truth, while their opponents are plunged in unforgiveable error.”

And we all know which side started the ‘No Debate! TWAW’ mantra which caused this entrenchment…

If you are going to discuss 'ROGD', may I recommend you read the interim Cass report.

cass.independent-review.uk/publications/interim-report/

Downloadable from this link. It puts what many parents and advocates for safeguarding children and teens around treatment for gender dysphoria into perspective.

Otherwise, you are again resorting to old trope.

anyway... back to the article...

There is a directness in Rowling’s manner which is found in few politicians. She goes for things, and on the trans question she has gone for the whole lily-livered Labour leadership.

If and when she gets them to stop nailing their colours to the fence, she will have done them a service.

Honestly, Labour just shoot themselves in the foot the whole time. Sadly, the lying nasty Tories have got nothing to worry about.

Here is something from today.

Julie Bindel (if you think she is anti-abortion, misogynistic or homophobic, I have a bridge to sell you), writing today:

" I was due to talk about feminism and lesbian identity at @UniOfYork today but have been deplatformed as a result of the LGBTQ+ lot. They claim to have simply delayed it for security reasons, but that's bullshit. One bluefringe stated in an open letter to the student union,
"Julie Bindel’s whole career is founded in supporting the mass homicide of sex workers." Others from student activists include: “no platform for transphobes”, “she spouts nothing but hate speech”, “why is this woman being allowed to speak here?” and “are those students directly endangered by her rhetoric to understand they are not safe on campus?”. Watch this space. I will not be taking this without protest.

"To correct - the comment about me existing only to murder women in prostitution, that was a comment made on one of the Student Solidarity network Instgram account"

twitter.com/bindelj/status/1504095808974635010?t=a7lMFE1ElZdVjH6YYj3rmw&s=19

Apparently women with something to say should just remain silent if the Left doesn't want them there.

It's like an abusive boyfriend, who doesn't want to date you any more, but flies off the handle if you're seen with anyone else. I suggest we get a restraining order on these soi-disant Left-wing men instead of letting them control us after the relationship's ended.

I would never defend vaush and his misogyny, his misogynistic attacks are reprehensible and an attack on all women. The same goes for any abuser, I would never give them a platform or promote their work, even if they have symphetic views towards trans liberation. That's the difference.

Yet one of your greatest champions Owen Jones does perhaps you would like to make your point to him?

Note how carped on about Vaush's misogyny and then only belatedly mentioned the CSA aspect which was what Screaming drew your attention to, strange that.

lots of GCs would be very upset to think they are working to uphold the patriarchy, which we should all all be fighting together to dismantle

No desire to 'work with' anyone trying to gaslight, smear, and impugn women, thanks.

What about Gordon Pike, one of the people who drew up the policy for including male prisoners who identify as women into the Scottish female prison estate; a policy which has resulted in 12 legally male prisoners, some of whom were convicted of sexual offences against women and children, being placed in female prisons.?
Does this mean everyone who supports trans people is a paedophile because Pike has been convicted of possessing thousands of photos etc of children being sexually abused?

You know what, I'm short in temper and time for this bullshit today. I'm off to Bunbury. Sorry everyone for helping to derail the thread, which no doubt was the intention.