Are you watching Womanhood?

[quote GoodieMoomin]Kelli-Jay has some things to say

Kelli-Jay has some things to say

I am still waiting for jizzle to supply some links to support what they say. This is about the 4th thread this week that I have asked someone who has made statements like this. I can only expect they have the stats I would like to see but cannot find.

The stats that show transitioned males commit sex crime at a rate lower than the rest of males in society. If not, I guess jizzle thinks sex segregation should be abolished anyway because no males are likely to be a risk to female’s safety.

I dare say that jizzle likes to believe in a wonderful world where nothing like those thread happens RedCarpet. Or would come back with ‘on haters would collate such a thread’.

I mean the Jane Clare Jones thread to Laurie Penny about Foucault over the weekend was a classic. Penny declaring it was all terrible why some feminists seemed to not elevate his work. And JCJ listing his child rapes, his ‘bucolic’ fantasies including child rape and the fact he was instrumental in then lowering the age of consent in France. Then Penny declaring it is ‘complex’.

There are people who will never admit that what they are advocating is harmful to others because they have been told they are being ‘kind’ and are on the right side of history.

Have a read through and you may rethink your 99.999% statement.

While at 35 suzi is a little too old to get away with the schoolgirl bully stare, it's obvious she's well out of her depth talking about women and girls rights on anything other than a very superficial level.

Well said Jane Clare Jones.

That Suzi is such a dick - glaring around as she sells women down the river. Asking how mixed sex spaces can work as transwomen would be vulnerable in them.

What a complete cock.

TWEET

Dr. Jane Clare Jones Sauropod
@janeclarejones
I know, it's awful when you go on telly, tell women they are 'hateful,' stand there giving them glaring side-eye when they try and explain themselves, talk about compassion when you are the one exhibiting hostility, and then they have the temerity to answer you back.

It is such a transparent demonstration of how this ideology attracts people who want to puff themselves up on their goodness and compassion, pat themselves on the back for their tolerance, all while utterly othering other people, and getting to dump all their aggression on them.

If you want to talk to us about compassion, if you want to be righteous about your tolerance and refusal to other other people, how about you start by trying to fucking listen to other people, and have compassion for people whose views are actually different from yours.

If any one of us treated trans people with the kind of flagrant othering and aggression you exhibited towards Nic Williams on that show, you would have every right to call that hateful.

But oh no, you are the good and the pure and the compassionate, and the fact that you were

the one being the asshole is totally lost on you.

I am so fucking done with the absolute self-righteous hostility of these 'be kind' mfkrs. Against women who have done nothing but defend women's political interests.

#BeKind

You always end up washing up in posh holiday cottages, even though there is a dishwasher, because they never provide enough crockery to get you through more than 24 hours.

What happened about washing up? Was that an example of a womanly task?

What was the point of the bit with the vibrators? That seemed to me to be gratuitous. They might say it was to show how Jacqueline made her money but they didn't think to film them all trying on Shirley's dancing shoes or doodling on Kirsty's notepad with her pen

And all that shit about them washing up - surely in that big fancy house there would be a dishwasher.

Shoddy.

How can anyone be in a relationship for several years and not notice that they either have a penis or have had surgery that requires daily attention?
It would only be possible if they never had sex and/or didn't live together
I feel strongly that everyone has the right to know the biological sex of anyone they are in a relationship with

Suzi and the others know nice trans women and that's great. since they're in privileged positions it makes sense that this is their life experience. but why have their brains fallen out? Suzi's on twitter declaring she's a trans ally with no empathy for why single-sex spaces are needed the day after 'International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women' No thought about Suzi being an 'ally' to a naked male with a penis showering with teenage girls. Then again she's promoting tickets to her tour
twitter.com/suziruffell/status/1464655494098866176

Meanwhile another lesbian and real feminist with empathy for women, Julie Bindel, has been getting loads of messages from women in the Brighton area that have also been refused female-only services in sexual assault centres/DV refuges and told that they are open to anyone that ID's as a woman
twitter.com/bindelj/status/1464903942207381509

Suzi was a master class in cognitive dissonance.

Also interesting that obtaining sex by deception was not mentioned even though that could be seen as a criminal offence.

a right on loose women is about right, it was a load of rubbish.

Do people on here genuinely not see trans women as women?

What is a "trans woman"? What is your criteria?

It was awful. Like a right on loose women
So much surgery in that room and the conversations
The build up to meeting Nic seemed ridiculous and contrived. God help us if that's the future

I await a programme called "Manhood", where a small group of male celebrities are put together to represent the thoughts and attitudes of the entire male population. I could think of a couple equivalent to Kirsty Wark, and there are men on the Strictly panel. But I can't think of the equivalent of a washed up, not even that successful at the time, pop singer and a not very good but somehow well-known comedian.....

interview lasting well over 90 mins

As a BBC license payer, I want to see the whole interview

Late to party, watching now.

Just got to consent part.

The flirting banter bit was infuriating!

I've been a feminist since before I knew the word. Since I was small.. Can't be exact but 6-9 I can remember being confused and annoyed about things which I later realised were to do with sexism.

So 40 years later with a strong interest for all those years, reading, years on here, going to feminist conferences etc. But most of all. Seeing so much during my life.

My reaction to some of what I've seen on this prog provokes a very strong negative reaction!

However the things I've gone Jesus Christ. DO reflect the views of a massive amount of the population including masses of women.

Sometimes it's good to remember/have a reminder of that and just how popular opinion is. (Those men golfing! Same views as pretty much all the men I've met at work all the places I worked over decades.)

Difficult viewing.

Do people on here genuinely not see trans women as women?

No. I don’t, at any rate.

What I understand by “woman” is “adult human female”, therefore someone who is an adult human male is clearly not a woman.

What exactly do you understand by the word woman? Exactly, precisely? What is it that you think is universally true of all the people I call woman and all the people you call “trans women”? What is it we all have in common? Remember that there are many women who don’t perform gender stereotypes and they are still women, so your universal commonality obviously has to include them.

I would really like to know exactly what this commonality between us is supposed to be.

(Oh, and you’re really out of touch with current trans ideology - gender dysphoria is no longer a prerequisite for identifying as trans, many male people who identify as trans are perfectly happy with their perfectly male bodies and distinctly male appearance. Not that I believe a male having gender dysphoria makes him a woman anyway, but if you’re going to go in to bat as a trans ally, you really ought to be up to speed with what you’re talking about.)

Just complaint. I felt it was so hollow and insensitive just a day after international day against violence against women.

I could not believe this upper middle class women with a life style very few can enjoy, where opening their hearts about all kinds of personal issues and when it gets to transwomen you cannot ask a personal question that actually followed from the topic volunteered by the trans person. 🤷🏻‍♀️

@wishineverchangedmyname

I don't think it is acceptable to keep your sex a secret - or try to.

And I don't think the intention is to educate any of us. It's to stop anyone asking questions that might cause transpeople to have to confront basic truths and reality, and to protect their feelings at the expense of compelling speech and controlling the rest of us.

My guess is that the only way a person in that situation could have been genuinely unaware- and even then, it would be a remarkably unobservant person, as a PP mentioned, who didn't notice small tells such as gait, hand and feet sizes etc - would be if they had had no sexual relationship. I think it is far likelier that the finance suspected but the TW didn't want to admit that on camera as it acknowledged that they didn't "pass" and so obfuscated and refused to answer the question, and in doing so tried to distract and discourage further questions by making out Shirley was the bad guy for asking.

And there was no need to bring genitals into it at all - that was classic reversal, as the TW was the only person who mentioned them.