Ed Davy on R4 Today - there should not be safe places for women

At least the naked truth is nakedly stated.

Did he miss the bit where women and girls are being abused, raped and killed in shocking numbers by those same biological men?
Nice to know that they'll have unlimited and easy access to victims as well as getting a free pass at the other end of the justice system.
The lib dems are an intellectually barren wasteland. Just a massive bunch of band-wagon jumping idiots.
Still, interesting to see that Mr Davey believes in biology - clearly being a 'biological male' isn't just an idea in the same way that being a woman is.

Ed Dave frequently gets himself into a mess trying to appease everyone. Surprised he actually gave a straight answer!

Ed Davey on LBC was unequivocal having listened to women's concerns about female single sex spaces being mixed sex and who feel threatened,

"I don't agree with them"

Ah, so only the ''lived experience'' and ''my truth'' of men matters, got it 👍

If you're a woman (the boring natal kind) detailing your lived experience and your truth, the menz will be along to inform you you're wrong, and to educate you on how a subset of males that are one of the safest groups of people in this country have it so much worse that you.

As for the prison quote...sick. I trust no person that thinks locking men in prison with vulnerable women is fine.

Jesus...just unbelievable. Women's safety just isn't a concern at all any more.

Sigh. So that's me leaving the LDs then. Thanks for the thread as I missed the interview. From the transcript it does sound very squirmy and he was trying to hide behind the general confusion in the debate, but he condoned breaching women's rights. I feel very let down - believe it or not he's one of the good ones.

Doesn’t it make you so mad when some, asked a difficult - or problematic - question start warbling on about “needing a discussion”. They think it makes them seem reasonable and open, when in fact they are just being weaselly.

Read this Ed

Yet the women’s refuge movement, which sprang out of brave survivors squatting in vacant properties because no one would give money to help abused women, is being destroyed by a decade-long shift towards huge contracts for gender-neutral services that privilege cost-cutting and one size fits all over women’s needs.

The domestic abuse bill currently going through the Lords doesn’t even mention women’s refuges. Even as women campaign for misogyny to be made a hate crime, falling rape and domestic abuse convictions are effectively decriminalising male violence against women. Yet so often it is the female victims who end up in prison: two-thirds of female prisoners have lived through domestic abuse. That’s the sick, misogynistic world we inhabit, one where women traumatised by male violence are more likely to be locked up than given access to therapeutic support.

And it says that single sex spaces in refuges are most important

Not the money grabbing gender neutral refuges

And to reiterate something I've said before - as far as I can tell, if any space lets any transwomen in, they can no longer legally bar any male.

There is no legal or social definition of a 'transwoman' other than a male person who assumes the title.

Radio 4 Today Program 17/09/2021

JW: Do you believe that there should be spaces - places - in our society where biological males can't go?

ED: Er, no - I think that the trans rights issue is an issue that all parties are grappling with and we need to come to some consensus across political parties and I've talked to Conservatives and Labour people who are trying to get this right. What I think we need to do to debate issues like this is to take some of the conflict and division out of it. What I worry, when I see Boris Johson and some of the Conservatives in Number Ten in the way they deal with this - they're sort of making this a cultural

JW (over the top) : But what about you? I asked you a direct question

ED: And I answered directly, actually Justin. We've very clear on this issue.

JW: So there should not be spaces where biological males cannot go?

ED: No, precisely! What we're saying, though, in this wider issue, dealing with trans rights which we're very much in favour of, is there needs to be a national discussion and I'm seeing in other political parties, people who are agreeing with the Liberal Democrats, Conservatives agreeing with us, Labour people agreeing with us and what we're trying to say is we need to have a mature, open tolerant debate and what we're seeing, I think, particularly from Boris Johnson's Downing Street unit, which is trying to stir divsion in our country. Division on this issue, divisional issues around race, I don't think that's acceptable...continues

And then we had the report out today.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/14/sarah-everard-misogyny-men-violence-death-women?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Such a good piece

Thank you, Ed Davey, for saying it loud and clear.

This is precisely the issue. More people need to wake up and listen.

This is what gender ideology means.

And to reiterate something I've said before - as far as I can tell, if any space lets any transwomen in, they can no longer legally bar any male.

Ed may be in some way thinking this somehow only applies to "transwomen" or "men who say they're women" and thinking that this somehow limits the scope - as if a man wouldn't say he was a woman! But men wouldn't even need to do that.

The law permits discrimination against males (ie excluding them) if there is a reason for something to be single-sex. That's the EA2010 "single-sex exception".

But if it's not single-sex, the exception does not apply, and that discrimination is not permitted. Any male being present would allow any other man to challenge being excluded on the basis of sex, self ID or not.

(That's my understanding, at least).

I think this is really positive.

A trans woman is a subset of biological man. When we start to use the term biological man the majority of people will surely start to see where the issue lies.

I’m always curious why male people campaign so hard for other male people to be given easier access to places where women and girls are vulnerable.

The Liberal Democrats have a very clear policy on 'transphobia' which means Ed Davey can't take any other position. It's worth looking up the policy on their website. I left the party over it after being an active member for many years. Apart from being anti-women and anti-homesexual its anti free speech which is my biggest problem with it. An absolutely disgraceful political party.

The Liberal Democrats' constitution:

(extract)
The Liberal Democrats exist to build and safeguard a fair, free and open society, in which we seek to balance the fundamental values of liberty, equality and community, and in which no one shall be enslaved by poverty, ignorance or conformity. We champion the freedom, dignity and well-being of individuals, we acknowledge and respect their right to freedom of conscience and their right to develop their talents to the full. We aim to disperse power, to foster diversity and to nurture creativity. We believe that the role of the state is to enable all citizens to attain these ideals, to contribute fully to their communities and to take part in the decisions which affect their lives.
www.libdems.org.uk/constitution

A spectacularly stupid man who clearly has never bothered to check out the rates of assault and harassment.

A man too ignorant to ever be allowed anywhere near government. Unable to recognise the risk to 51% of his electorate.

A total prat.

Such an incredibly powerful statement. It beggars belief that in a country where people supposedly have human rights and people are falling over themselves to pander to the "rights" of rapists not to be "othered", that women, including many women who are already victims of sexual violence, can be subjected to institutional sexual abuse in this way, and treated as props for abusive men

From the previous thread linked above:

Times article by Lucy Bannerman
October 19 2018
'Lib Dem trans activists ‘hounded’ abuse victim'
(extract)
"A victim of domestic abuse was removed as a judge of a radical thinking prize and “hounded” out of her role within the Liberal Democrats for saying that she did not believe that men who identified as women should have access to women’s refuges.

Natalie Bird, 38, a mother of two who fled an abusive former partner, was accused of “dangerous transphobia” by transgender activists in the party. She had said that opening up safe spaces without proper safeguards to anyone who said that they were female could put women at risk.

She opposed segregating women’s refuges by chosen gender instead of biological sex, and said that it was not fair to make female victims of domestic violence, abuse and rape share services with people with “functioning” male anatomy.

After being allegedly bullied on social media by party activists, Ms Bird was brought before a disciplinary hearing to face a complaint in the name of Zoe O’Connell, on behalf of the LGBT+ Liberal Democrats. The correspondence says that Ms Bird had “expressed troublesome views”.

The hearing found no evidence to support the complaint of transphobia, but Ms Bird lost her position as chairwoman of the Radical Association, made up of party members, following a vote of no confidence. This cost her her role as a judge of the Ashdown Prize for Radical Thought; an ironic move, Ms Bird said, given that the prize’s aim was to reward “big, bold, radical” solutions to society’s most “daunting problems . . . no one has the courage to argue for” (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lib-dem-trans-activists-hounded-abuse-victim-b6dx39tv3

Sorry - he has thought about prisons. He is apparently just stupid.

Stupid, callous, misogynistic, sadistic. Like many people it's not clear. All four even, or any combination, it's not relevant exactly which as the result for women is the same.

Ed Davey has been asked specifically about prisons. There is no ambiguity about the position of the Liberal Democrats and dissenters within the party have been treated very poorly.

Previous thread (2018):
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3399104-Times-Lib-Dem-trans-activists-hounded-abuse-victim-Natalie-Bird-Article-refers-to-Zoe-OConnell-Sarah-Brown