Article with sums up where we are now

Petition @UKParliament to record bio-SEX of all #Rapists &sexual/violent offenders approaching 10,000 necessary to trigger @Govuk response and well on the way to 100,000 to trigger a debate on the floor of @HouseofCommons thanks to @MBMpolicy petition in @ScotParl petition.parliament.uk/petitions/590123

Unfortunately the "self-absorbed twaddle" appeared to go unrecognised as such by some female students. Bradley is performing at the Manchester SU Women's Campaign in the video above. Many of the male students with non-binary/trans identities who gained influence in NUS did so via Women's platforms and presumably with the support of sufficient numbers of female students.

April 2018 thread discussing a workshop at NUS Women's 18, 'How to Deal With Terfs' led by Rowan Davis and Eden Ladley precipitated awareness of the incident with Emma Healey (former Mumsnet intern/ data breach).

From the workshop's powerpoint 'Recommended reading' described by Davis and Ladley as 'a really good guide that outlines common TERF arguments": theterfs.com
(extract)
"TIP: In the same way anti-gay groups claim to be “Christian” (WBC), TERFs attempt to spread anti-trans animus by passing it off as a brand of feminism, usually “Radical Feminism” or so-called “Gender Critical Feminism.”

TIP: Like anti-gay groups, TERFs often assert that they don’t “hate” trans people.

In the 1980s, TERFs substantively supported the effort to bring an end to trans health care access. One TERF operative wrote a government report which led the the revocation of public and private insurance converge of trans medical care. According to the State of California, such policies lead to the death of trans people.

For decades, TERFs have sought to legislate trans people out of existence. Moreover, they work to oppose trans equality measures, infiltrate trans-inclusive feminist spaces, work with anti-gay groups to target trans kids and collaborate with anti-trans extremists who advocate bombing US targets.

Much like their far right-wing counterparts, TERFs do not support trans people using the restroom. In fact, the TERF community was the first to use this as a political issue way back in 1973.

Much like their extremist counterparts, TERFs generally do not recognize the transitioned status of trans people and instead assert that trans people are the sex they were assigned at birth.

The TERF movement is particularly effective in their campaign against trans people and trans equality as they consistently couch their actions as political/feminist/lesbian/radical/womanist critiques of gender and are therefore welcomed in spaces that would normally reject the same rhetoric from right wing people and organizations. From consistently targeting trans healthcare to supporting reparative therapy for trans children, the TERF movement – while historically seen as both ridiculous and irrelevant – has managed to inflict more suffering upon the trans community than any other anti-trans equality movement in the history of the United States."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3222263-Slide-show-on-How-to-Deal-with-TERFs?pg=1#prettyPhoto[gallery77202844]/0/

Both Ladley and Davis were NUS Women's Officers.

relevant thread includes the 'Borderforce incident' : www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3474518-NUS-Trans-Conference

Jess's Impossible Vagina monologue came immediately to my mind too.

I have still never managed to watch the whole thing.

Self absorbed twaddle indeed.

What a load of self absorbed twaddle. 'The first time I changed the world'...eh, what? How presumptuous.
The last line should really read 'It's about creating a world in which I am at the centre and validated at all times by everyone'.

Jess Bradley- 'My Impossible Vagina' (Manchester SU Women's Campaign 'The Vagina Monologues 2015)

Jess Bradley (former NUS Trans officer) identified as a 'non binary trans woman'

"The first time I changed the world was when I told my mates to call me she rather than he. I literally constructed a new world where its possible to understand myself as a genderqueer woman, despite being asigned male at birth simply by changing the language to describe myself. This is why language and pronouns are so important. Its about creating a world in which trans people are allowed to exist"

What a load of self absorbed twaddle. 'The first time I changed the world'...eh, what? How presumptuous.
The last line should really read 'It's about creating a world in which I am at the centre and validated at all times by everyone'.

Also, what really bugs me is this 'allowed to exist' nonsense. Eh, of course you exist, I can see and hear you, there you are, waffling on....
When they say this they really mean they want the whole world to pander to their own view of themselves. Which is nothing to do with existing, and everything to do with their supreme narcissism.

Nope.

I've decided, I'm not giving up the term women, to men.

Nope.

They are and remain terms for adult human sexes.

However I am still as female as I ever was (indeed nothing about me has changed at all, it's the nomenclature that got changed around me), which means I still suffer all the physical and social implications of a female body.

Unfortunately, almost everything set up to help female people with the implications of their sex was put under the name Women because until very recently the words Woman and (Adult Human) Female were synonymous.

So while Woman no longer fits me, I have to keep the name simply to retain the rights I should have as a female.

If only those who agitate so hard for the definition of Woman to include males would put a bit of effort into tidying up the mess that creates for Female single sex provision by supporting us in getting stuff that was always intended as single sex moved from Women-only to Female-only, the whole thing would be much much more reasonable and supportive for everyone.

Really very little has changed since 2012

Make that 1912. Or even 1812.

I have enjoyed listening again to Hannah Clarke's speeches, Amy Desir's interviews and reminding myself of #ManFriday actions. They were the best of men!

9 Jun 2018
Hannah Clarke's speech at LAWS Truro on becoming an "accidental activist", why all the ManFriday women are "equally brave & deserving of recognition" & suggestions how to support this "war on women":

(from 33:00)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w3EjbjubU8

Amy Desir (and Jane Fae)
Does Gender Self-Identification Put Women at Risk? | Good Morning Britain
19 Mar 2018

I’m sure most people who use the site are decent folk. They want nothing to do with the rabid mouth-frothing going on by so-called “feminists.”

Has clearly never followed a thread on cyclist’s rights, baby led weaning, phonics, dogs on leads, boarding schools/grammar schools/private schools/church schools, or loo brushes.

And that’s before you even think about Brexit or Covid.

These boards seem so one sided because of the lack of informed argument from parties with a different view.

OP never came back then? A male who wants to berate women but is unable to engage with them

It is their established style.

I’m not understanding this. How are you non-binary if you call yourself a woman?

It simply means a male person who having identified as 'trans woman' does not present in a feminine maner and/or have medical interventions.

Jess Bradley (former NUS Trans officer) identified as a 'non binary trans woman'

"The first time I changed the world was when I told my mates to call me she rather than he. I literally constructed a new world where its possible to understand myself as a genderqueer woman, despite being asigned male at birth simply by changing the language to describe myself. This is why language and pronouns are so important. Its about creating a world in which trans people are allowed to exist"

Jess Bradley 'To My Trans Sisters'
edited by Charlie Craggs (publ Oct 2017)

relevant threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3626735-Update-on-the-Jess-Bradley-position

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3520762-Jess-Bradley-government-advisor-and-suspended-NUS-Trans-Officer-Part-iv

Dunno, I was sort of wondering that too, but also I've thought for some time that I might be a NB trans woman.

The NHS definition of non-binary includes a definition that applies to me ("Some people do not define themselves as having a "binary" identity. For them the concept of gender is not relevant to their identity. They may use different terms, such as agender, gender diverse, gender non-conforming, to describe their identity. However, as a group, they are often called "non-binary".") - NB is under the trans umbrella, so by default being NB is being trans, and I'm a woman by birth, if not by stereotypes.

As a non-binary trans woman

I’m not understanding this. How are you non-binary if you call yourself a woman?

A lot of interesting and informative comments, as always. I’m glad this thread is going to be shown to trans supporters who would not otherwise read anything about feminism. Even if the intention is hostile, simple honest words may get through to some of them.

OP never came back then? A male who wants to berate women but is unable to engage with them

How incredibly novel

The reality is more like a Nuremberg Rally. It’s very scary.

When key opinion leaders (or those who are appointed as such by interviewed for MSM) are uncorrected in their hyperbole, it's hardly surprising that the general public has little idea of what the reality is. But the damage is, of course, to those people who believe such accounts and are induced to be fearful of personal relationships and society as a whole.

India Willoughby was very shocked to find out MN wasn’t just about pushchairs & lipstick. I think that’s because this is what ‘cis’ women, especially ones with kids, are supposed to talk about. And they struggle so hard with us because we don’t fit their nice Stepfordy stereotypes.

This was shortly after Justine Roberts went public about the pressures by TRAs on MN to censor women's discussions.

'Mumsnet founder Justine Roberts: Transgender activists try to curb free speech on site'
Andrew Gilligan
Sunday Times April 15 2018
(extract)
The founder of Mumsnet says transgender “thought police” are pressurising advertisers to withdraw from Britain’s most popular parenting website because it allows the discussion of trans topics.

Justine Roberts said she had been approached by three significant advertisers who had been threatened by trans groups.

“Transgender activists have contacted Mumsnet advertisers and said they will be organising a boycott of their products if they don’t remove their advertising from Mumsnet,” Roberts said.

The website had told the advertisers that it “works hard to keep the discussions civil” and was determined to let them continue.

“What’s worrying to me is the thought-police action around speech and the shutting down of the right to be able to disagree and immediately labelling it as transphobic,” Roberts said.

The threats are the latest move in a campaign by transgender activists to inhibit discussion of potential legal changes that would allow people born male to self-identify as women.
Feminists say the plans threaten women’s rights and protected spaces. Trans activists say that to oppose them is bigotry. They have pressurised dozens of venues into cancelling meetings on the subject."(continues)
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mumsnet-founder-justine-roberts-transgender-activists-try-to-curb-free-speech-on-site-z3sr3nf6q
archive.ph/3OjLW

16th April 2018
Julia Hartley-Brewer: Major row erupts while talking about transgender activists and Mumsnet
interview with Justine Roberts and India Willoughby

India Willoughby for Pink News
'Britain’s rampant transphobia has me worried for my life'
APRIL 24, 2018
(extract)
"The Sunday Times, Daily Mail and – wait for it – Mumsnet – are hounding trans women in the same way Hitler went about stigmatising Jewish people.
Seriously. That’s no exaggeration.
The tabloids are no surprise, but Mumsnet?
Yeah, what is supposed to be a family-friendly parenting site has it’s claws out for the trans community.
And it all feels very orchestrated. (continues)

Justine is adamant there’s nothing transphobic on Mumsnet. Only reasoned debate. She wants transgender visitors to Mumsnet to be “happy and supported.” It feels reminiscent of when Cruella de Vil opens a home for stray dogs in 101 Dalmatians.
As I say, take a look for yourself. Trans groups are more than happy to debate any subject Justine or her murky corner of the web wants – but the material on the site isn’t a discussion. It’s vicious, nasty persecution
Mumsnet’s reputation for transphobia is fully deserved. Hardliners openly strategise ways to make life tougher for trans people: Passengers warned not to travel on sleeper trains because they might end up in the same sleeping berth as a woman who’s trans. Support gathered to stop trans women being allowed on Labour’s all-women shortlists. National meeting organised where they can clap and cheer their hatred.
It’s all very similar to the way the National Front used to operate.
I’m sure most people who use the site are decent folk. They want nothing to do with the rabid mouth-frothing going on by so-called “feminists.” (continues)

Last week was my first ever visit to Mumsnet. Honestly, I thought it was going to be lots of stuff about prams, or family-related matters. A sort of online This Morning minus Phil and Holly. The reality is more like a Nuremberg Rally. It’s very scary." (continues)

archive.ph/GB8bv

Golly, nine minutes to say "Shut up, Mom"

Can someone, anyone, explain why the rad-fems are seen as shutting down debate but those who are actively seeking their muzzling are not seen as shutting down debate?
…
Either this is personal attack on individual posters.

Or it is group attack on 'radfems' as nasty people who need fenced off from the reasonable folks.

Either way it is unpleasant.

Problems that social media platforms have not resolved to this day.

Agreed on the withdrawn posts (from several posters). Understandable but deeply regrettable at this distance.

Notable, of course, that the splitting into 'chat', 'theory' etc. was a non-starter - particularly after losing some of the active participants.

Can’t help thinking that anyone who would characterise discussions of schools/education on mumsnet as ‘innocuous’ hasn’t really grasped the nature of the site…

EmbarrassingAdmissions - Dittany came back after those threads, she left in 2012 when there was a lot of nastiness and MNHQ last tried splitting FWR.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/1506544-FWR-split-continued

I wish she hadn't had all her posts withdrawn.

Atlantic
Having thus decided to research anti-trans ideologies, the next question was how to do so without putting undue strain on my mental wellbeing. I understood from the outset that reading thousands of pages of material that questions my right to exist, processing it, and then making scholarly sense of it would inevitably be an emotionally laborious endeavour, and not one to be taken lightly."

Atlantic
'THE CODDLING OF THE AMERICAN MIND
In the name of emotional well-being, college students are increasingly demanding protection from words and ideas they don’t like. Here’s why that’s disastrous for education—and mental health.'

By Greg Lukianoff and Jonathan Haidt
SEPTEMBER 2015 ISSUE

(extract)
"The press has typically described these developments as a resurgence of political correctness. That’s partly right, although there are important differences between what’s happening now and what happened in the 1980s and ’90s. That movement sought to restrict speech (specifically hate speech aimed at marginalized groups), but it also challenged the literary, philosophical, and historical canon, seeking to widen it by including more-diverse perspectives. The current movement is largely about emotional well-being. More than the last, it presumes an extraordinary fragility of the collegiate psyche, and therefore elevates the goal of protecting students from psychological harm. The ultimate aim, it seems, is to turn campuses into “safe spaces” where young adults are shielded from words and ideas that make some uncomfortable. And more than the last, this movement seeks to punish anyone who interferes with that aim, even accidentally. You might call this impulse vindictive protectiveness. It is creating a culture in which everyone must think twice before speaking up, lest they face charges of insensitivity, aggression, or worse. (continues)

There’s a saying common in education circles: Don’t teach students what to think; teach them how to think. The idea goes back at least as far as Socrates. Today, what we call the Socratic method is a way of teaching that fosters critical thinking, in part by encouraging students to question their own unexamined beliefs, as well as the received wisdom of those around them. Such questioning sometimes leads to discomfort, and even to anger, on the way to understanding.

But vindictive protectiveness teaches students to think in a very different way. It prepares them poorly for professional life, which often demands intellectual engagement with people and ideas one might find uncongenial or wrong. The harm may be more immediate, too. A campus culture devoted to policing speech and punishing speakers is likely to engender patterns of thought that are surprisingly similar to those long identified by cognitive behavioral therapists as causes of depression and anxiety. The new protectiveness may be teaching students to think pathologically."
(continues)
www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind/399356/