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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Telegraph - Patient safety fears as NHS allows trans sex offenders in female-only wards

111 replies

OvaHere · 03/08/2021 00:08

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/02/safety-fears-patients-nhs-allows-trans-sex-offenders-female/

archive.vn/cWKxb

Good but horrifying article about NHS guidelines that not only put women at risk but also champion the adoption of very draconian, punitive measures aimed at women and/or staff who raise concerns or complain.

OP posts:
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Nonmaquillee · 03/08/2021 07:43

@TalkingOutYerArse

FFS
FindTheTruth · 03/08/2021 07:43

The article is specifically about male born sex offenders

Quite

FindTheTruth · 03/08/2021 07:42

@R0wantrees 👏 you're more useful than Google

two thirds of sexual assaults by patients in hospitals happened mixed sex wards. Ruth Hunt shrugged as she rolled out the 'equality' index across the land and in hospital wards and said 'Men rape'.

TalkingOutYerArse · 03/08/2021 07:42

mobile.twitter.com/WomenReadWomen/status/1422360895192141826

And here is 'Jane'

TalkingOutYerArse · 03/08/2021 07:38

‘Trans people should feel safe in hospital’

Dr Jane Hamlin, president of the Beaumont Society, a trans support group, said: “If anyone starts off with an assumption that a trans person is a sex offender - or even a potential sex offender - that is discrimination and transphobia. All patients, including trans people, should feel safe when in hospital.”

The article is specifically about male born sex offenders. Why this comment was added is beyond me. Rage inducing!

R0wantrees · 03/08/2021 07:34

The Observer
Sun 30 Jul 2017

'Mixed-sex wards endanger and humiliate women'
by Catherine Bennett
"Even as gender-neutral spaces grow, hospitals show that in some areas men and women are best kept apart

(extract)
The unacceptability of mixed-sex wards has been a cherished theme for every opposition since Tony Blair alighted, in 1996, on what is still, universally, agreed to be a valid cause of public upset.

Mixed wards, he said “cause indignity, upset people”. Subsequent studies, including a 2008 examination of nurse and patient perspectives, confirmed he had not exaggerated. There were patients, it confirmed, of both sexes and of varied ages, who “experienced a lack of privacy, worried about bodily exposure and felt uncomfortable”. Nurses entirely sympathised. “Mixed-sex accommodation,” it concluded, “is an unacceptable solution to bed shortages.”

Moreover, investigations showed, objections go far beyond the allegedly trivial ones, according to more disinhibited patients, of commodes, Carry On! gowns, proximity to men who might resemble, to pick one or two names at random, the Pimlico Plumber and twat-detector Charlie Mullins or the BBC star and famed beauty connoisseur, John Inverdale.

Patients and their relatives attested to intrusion, exhibitionism and leering from nearby beds, even with staff around. In 2009, Channel 4 discovered that almost two-thirds of sexual assaults by patients in hospitals (21 out of 33 in 2007/8), occurred in mixed-sex wards. Variations on Blair’s question to an evasive John Major – “Is it beyond the collective wit of the government and the health administrators to deal with that problem?” – was a reliable line in opposition outrage until Jeremy Hunt declared in 2014 that this indignity was “nearly”, or “virtually”, history.

Regulations introduced by the coalition government in 2010 compelled hospital trusts to report their figures for mixed-ward occupation, then fined them £250 per night for breaches. “We want to see the end of mixed-sex wards,” Nick Clegg said. “Everybody knows this has got to end.” As recently as his 2015 conference speech, a key part of Hunt’s claims to representing “the party of the NHS” was the unqualified triumph: “mixed sex wards eliminated”
(continues)

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/30/mixed-sexed-wards-endanger-and-humiliate-women

lottiegarbanzo · 03/08/2021 07:30

@LemonRoses Do you have any idea how much consultation took place before that change was made?

lottiegarbanzo · 03/08/2021 07:27

We can all recognise someone's gender identity, without pretending that they can change sex.

Nonmaquillee · 03/08/2021 07:20

This is just horrifying. Truly nightmarish.

And I have no words for what the article says about treatment potentially being withdrawn if a female patient speaks out…..surely this can’t be legal? I’m not a medic but surely patients don’t have treatment withheld for articulating any kind of viewpoint??

JellySlice · 03/08/2021 07:15

@Melroses

Unless the patient is currently prisoner receiving care in an NHS facility, how are the NHS supposed to know of the existence of sexual offences or domestic violence offences offending in order to carry out any of these 'risk assessments' ?
If wards were strictly sex-segregated, they would not need to know. Not in the vast majority of cases.
LemonRoses · 03/08/2021 07:10

I would suggest writing to Mr Javid as SoS for health.

LemonRoses · 03/08/2021 07:09

@Jocasta2018

Why are hospitals exempt from the 2010 Equalities Act?
They aren’t. They very much aren’t. However, NHSEI guidance on mixed sex accommodation was changed to accommodate transgender people’s preferences in 2019. The specific requirements are on page 12.

www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/05/NEW-Delivering_same_sex_accommodation_sep2019.pdf

FindTheTruth · 03/08/2021 07:02

Working with Stonewall incompatible with NHS values
www.hsj.co.uk/workforce/working-with-stonewall-is-no-longer-compatible-with-nhs-values/7030259.article

"Nurses speak of their distress at being instructed to insist to their female patients that there are no men present, in the clear presence of a man identifying as a woman. Who can they turn to when their employer, union and regulator are all Stonewall Champions?"

Jocasta2018 · 03/08/2021 07:00

Why are hospitals exempt from the 2010 Equalities Act?

FannyCann · 03/08/2021 06:59

By individual. Careful risk assessment. Detail. Justification for decision. Paperwork. Responsibility. What if they get it wrong? Who does it? I'd guess HCPs. This is not their job. Their area. How much info do they have? How on earth would they make that judgement? What if their decision is challenged? I mean it's a minefield. And a big overhead for already overworked people.

Often when hospitals are full and patients are queues up in A&E for beds it will be a bed manager (in my hospital they are just low grade administrators) who will designate where a patient goes. I was forced to remove a dying patient from a single room to the ward bay to make way for a patient who was an infection risk needing a single room.
And as pp have said, unless it is an admission from the prison estate no one will know about a history of violence or sex offending. In fact even where someone is accompanied by prison wardens or police with handcuffs confidentiality usually means you don't get to hear their crime unless one of the escorts is a gossip.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 03/08/2021 06:47

The Mail also covering this:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9854261/Convicts-born-male-identify-female-placed-women-wards.html

TinyTroubleMaker · 03/08/2021 06:16

AngryAngryAngry

FindTheTruth · 03/08/2021 06:12

Another example of Stonewall's equality index in real life

nosafeguardingadults · 03/08/2021 04:27

Already mixed sex nothing to do with trans in psychiatric wards. Really bad cos so many women in mental health bad place cos of violence and sexual abuse. I was nearly sectioned when domestic violence made me come across as mentally ill. It was trauma and distress and fear from abuse and not being safe. Last thing I needed was being in unsafe psychiatric ward. All I needed and still need is safe place of my own to live. Lucky for me I had GP who understood what was really happening to me. She was able to stop me being wrongly seen as mentally ill except PTSD, although she can't help me leave the violent situation not her fault as she's not domestic abuse advocate but sorry that's separate issue.

Other women who are in genuinely need of psychiatric in patient definitely not helped or safe to be in mixed sex wards. More trauma being with sometimes violent men and also rapes happen in psychiatric wards but nothing changed and still mixed sex.

NiceGerbil · 03/08/2021 03:06

Meanwhile wasn't sexual assault of women in hosp esp longer term in the news recently?

Chickenyhead · 03/08/2021 03:05

So if you are distressed by the presence of a man on your ward, where you may be required to use a commode etc, you are not allowed to speak.

I'm sure there is a word for this...

Fallingirl · 03/08/2021 02:57

In guidance from University Hospitals Birmingham, still available on their website, it states that “treatment may also be withheld” if a patient discriminates against a trans person.'*

“Discriminate” in this sentence means “does not go along with the pretence that a man who says he is a woman is literally a woman”. In other words, someone who cannot or will not lie when ordered to.

If these policies are left to stand, we are actually now living under a totalitarian regime.

ColourMagic · 03/08/2021 02:23

This is so frightening, and frankly threatening towards women in hospital. One Hospital Trust advocates withholding treatment from patients (women) who 'discriminate against a trans person'. When discomfort or fear can be reported as Hate Crimes, what is the standard for 'discrimination? Surely withholding treatment cannot be lawful and can be challenged? That is a monstrous policy.

^'The Telegraph has analysed policies issued by more than 20 trusts in England and has found that a number of them order medics to call the police and report a hate crime if patients do not accept another person’s gender identity.

In guidance from University Hospitals Birmingham, still available on their website, it states that “treatment may also be withheld” if a patient discriminates against a trans person.'*