Transgender people have an average life expectancy of 30-35, or lower

Just placemarking cause gawd, the receipts are a thing of beauty and, being the optimist that I am, I would love to see the response

OP - is it worth you asking MNHQ to edit your thread title to include

Myth:…

Oh.... forgot... Here is an entire country of clinicians from Sweden.

genderreport.ca/the-swedish-u-turn-on-gender-transitioning/

Shall I go through and pick out names for you?

"Many" experienced clinicians seems like a stretch, eh?

I mean even if we take Thoughtful Therapists (LGB Alliance's favourite), it's led by a trainee psychologist (James Esses). They couldn't even get a fully qualified one to join.

Says a lot about your "many" comment

Sorry, I just saw that I missed this.

I have already started to post some of the studies from clinicians speaking out.

Shall I continue then? Because, you seem to be kind of focused on disparaging the LGB Alliance really and not on countering my claim with any evidence of your own yeahbutnaw, which does seem to be business as usual.

Let me start to add some others to your resource list since you obviously need to do some reading to catch up.

First up, Dr Steensma and co who, surprisingly enough, published the advice on affirming therapy years ago, who has come out and said that it is not appropriate to treat the current cohort of young female transitionsers and more work needs to be done.

I mean, did you miss this because it is HUGE news and kind of hard to dismiss.

Then we have new organisations launching quite regularly now. I'll just mention one, you know how to google.

segm.org has about 12 clinicians from around the world plus other academics in relevant fields that front up the organisation. I am sure that the resources are being used widely by others. Maybe, if you want, I could contact them to see what their membership numbers are now for practising clinicians?

I posted a study up thread with seven clinicians names just from Sydney.

I mean that is just two sources and already I have nearly 20 world respected clinicians who are voicing their concerns. I haven't even looked who Thoughtful Therapists are. Who are they? Just someone you wanted to use as a blunt instrument to get a dig in about LGB Alliance?

Did you watch the BBC Newsnight last year when they started discussing ex-GIDS clinicians? I mean I have read there is now a very large list of clinicians from GIDS that have now expressed concerns, but this is the thing.... they have to remain anonymous because they worry about their jobs and/or their safety. I am sure I heard that the list was over 50 now, maybe the numbers will be released closer to David Bell's hearing.

I have expended enough energy on this now. Maybe in your reading to get links to disprove that many experienced clinicians are now concerned, you might post those names here.

Just a warning though. There has been a 'letter' with supposedly thousands of 'important' names posted on our threads in the past as being evidence of 'wide support' including a 'Nobel laureate'. I have been through the first 100 of those names and many of them are simply not in the field or even have disciplines remotely concerning this, that Nobel laureate has a vested interest in pushing this agenda, just as many of those that did have relevant experience. So, please don't bother posting that.

Says a lot about your "many" comment As I have asked, and others on other threads have asked, you previously, please post the evidence that supports YOUR claims yeahbutnaw.

Strange that that evidence never seems to get posted. And it kind of completely discredits your assertions about 'my' comment.

It would be to trans people's advantage to have accurate evidence-based information so that they can campaign for and get the support most beneficial for them. Why would you be opposed to that?

Indeed. Why would anyone prefer to have inaccurate, not non-evidence based, non-facts?

Maybe both mishy and yeah can tell us who might benefit if we as parents do not correct this misinformation, if we don’t discuss it on threads so that others who might have believed it otherwise can read that it is falsely applied.

Who benefits exactly?

Rather datun.

And I wonder who benefits exactly with discouraging parents from protecting their children from misinformation?

We're pretending this is official statement from an actual organisation

when in fact it was a random teenager

It's very unpleasant to notice how you describe 'random teenagers' with such contempt. These are our children. Being fed lies. And there's you, trying to stop us from correcting them.

It's quite astonishing how 'no debate' seems to have now morphed into 'no evidence'. Questioning false statistics being quoted as fact by various sources is apparently now a bad thing. Saying that statistics which relate to a very specific group, in a very specific geographical position does not directly relate to other groups/countries apparently means that you are bigoted.

Absolutely bizarre. It's as if critical thinking has become a thing of the past.

I'm still waiting for Mishy to go back and answer some of the excellent responses to their post on the "been called unscientific" thread from a few weeks ago.

Necessary Scene Posted at 0840

The number comes from the average age of Brazilian transsexual prostitutes who are murdered.

This is one of those statistics where you keep the number, but change what it refers to to make it look shocking. When in fact the result here is so nonsensical that it doesn't pass a common sense test.

It's not life expectancy - it's the average age of murder victims. Totally different thing.

And that's in line with the average age of murder victims generally. There's no significant difference in the 35 number for "trans" here compared to the general population.

One of the things to always look for is comparators for "non-trans" from the same source data. That will reveal dodginess like this.

I am sure though the both Mishy and yeah will be back with correct statistics to clarify the current situation. Otherwise, what other intention would they have pointing out that we are in fact, discussing the fact that the statistics are dodgy and we know that they are misused..

And that one of the impacts that continuing to throw around this type of misinformation is in forcing through affirming only treatment paths.... And we have also shown clinician studies and feedback that show just how harmful the effects of forcing clinicians into affirming only treatment is.

I will wait, though, for more current statistics.

You lot need more hobbies.

I find reading is a great hobby. You should try it some time!

www.marieclaire.com/politics/a28169056/black-trans-women-murdered/

www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/06/09/ashlee-marie-preston-expectancy-black-trans-woman-36-birthday-milestone/

(another pink news and in 2020)

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/22/epidemic-violence-transgender-people-experienced-stonewall

Shall I continue....

@yeahbutnaw Have you never seen this statistic quoted before? I'm surprised, you spend so much time on here, but you seem to have reacted as though it's the first time you've seen this 'life expectancy of transwomen' statistic.

Here's a thread from 2017.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3070105-Fake-stats-transgender-life-expectancy

And an article from 2018 where Paris Lees mentions this figure:
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/22/epidemic-violence-transgender-people-experienced-stonewall

Lees links to this report as evidence:
www.oas.org/en/iachr/lgtbi/docs/Annex-Registry-Violence-LGBTI.pdf

Patricia Arquette said it at the Emmy Awards.

Here you go. This daft figure has been quoted in the Guardian and on Channel 4. Are we allowed to talk about it now?

herriotts.wordpress.com/2018/05/12/life-expectancy-of-mtts/#:~:text=It%E2%80%99s%20endlessly%20recycled%20and%20quoted%20by%20trans%20activists%2C,recent%2C%20and%20now%20infamous%2C%20%23GenderQuakeDebate%20on%20Channel%204.

It is pink news... sorry.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/06/07/munroe-bergdorf-speaks-out-for-black-trans-women-statistically-i-only-have-four-years-left-to-live/

Just for you yeah

It is NOT just some random teenager. It is something that needs to be debunked every time it appears.

You lot need more hobbies. Says the person getting angry at women saying 'no' to them at the moment on the internet....

You lot need more hobbies

I was just thinking this…about you obviously

So you have evidence yeah that this is a teenager posting this? Please share.

when in fact it was a random teenager

because it's possible an actual organisation would say something like this

...

Have I got that right?

You lot need more hobbies.