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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

mumsnet have moved one of my threads without permission and effectivelly instructed us how we may or may not discuss things.

93 replies

stumbledin · 25/06/2021 15:46

I started a thread on the newsnight programme from last night about the man eventually convicted of killing two women after years of police failure.

For reason known only to the irrational concepts of mumsnet they have moved it to the "chat" board.

This is on one level just plain daft as there is already a thread on there about this, so there didn't need to be another.

But I specifically chose to have it on this thread as this is more likely to be where women who understand about women's sex based oppression post and I wanted to interact with them.

On one level this is political censorship. They created the division so they will have to live with them.

Hosting a board does NOT entitle you to tell those using the service how to think.

So not only have they falsely labelled this board a debate about something none of us are talking about (gender) they are now, with out having the gumption to even spell it out, taking secret decisions about what is or is not appropriate.

mumsnet seems to have suddenly decided that because the board is popular means that what they think is right think. Whereas what makes it popular are the posters.

This is like those facebook groups where the group admins suddently go power mad and think they because they are the admin they are also the holder of all true thought.

This is like the interns have taken over from the adults.

this is l

OP posts:
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SpringCrocus · 29/06/2021 20:30

No, not at all. I don't think @MNHQ would have deleted your post if that's all it said. I suspect it was a lot more offensive than that.

But I have explained why I did what I did, (not that I need to explain, but I did you the courtesy)

and now I will just ignore your goady posts.

Original poster
stumbledin · 29/06/2021 20:01

I just said that it appeared when it suited mnhq they would act on behalf on you individual (in this case you) to distort what others have posted to try and boost up the flagging chat section.

And couldn't understand would think why anyone was entitled to do that.

Happy now?

OP posts:
SpringCrocus · 29/06/2021 19:37

@stumbledin as you mentioned me in the deleted post from 1808, would you care to pm me what you said to/about me please. I was unable to read the comment before @MNHQ deleted it.

Original poster
stumbledin · 29/06/2021 18:11

Wasn't going to post about my own thread but as I am hear just to say I contacted mumsnet 25 June saying I disagreed with their decision and had not had a reply by yesterday.

So I used the report function again saying I didn't accept their decision - and have still not heard back.

So really reassuring to know that everything is being done in a trasparent and open way, and in line with clear guidelines.

It would seem that mnhq only responds to the "right kind of feminist" - but otherwise you are a non person they feel entitled to ignore.

OP posts:
stumbledin · 29/06/2021 18:08

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ErrolTheDragon · 27/06/2021 15:03

@EndoplasmicReticulum

Any threads started in AIBU get moved too. It's the only topic where that happens as far as I can tell.
I think threads on coronavirus, or brexit (when there were a lot of them) are generally moved from chat or AIBU to the relevant board.

However, if someone has created an AIBU on any subject with a clear YANBU/YABU question and voting turned on, then it should stay put.

DaisiesandButtercups · 27/06/2021 12:30

On reflection maybe it would be helpful in the OP to state something like

“I am posting this in sex and gender debate because I want to be able to hear the views of those who believe sex is real and it matters on this topic as well as other points of view”

EndoplasmicReticulum · 27/06/2021 11:49

OPs are going to have to make it clear perhaps that they want the post to stay here.
Maybe write "PS. Woman = adult human female" at the end.

Floisme · 27/06/2021 11:41

I've become ore sanguine about the split (or maybe I just haven't got the energy to argue). However I've assumed up until now that, if someone chooses to post on Sex and Gender on any feminist topic then it's a sign that they're happy for other posters to bring up the issue of sex based rights. Moving it to 'Feminist Chat' without speaking to the op does feel like muzzling the discussion.

For the time being I will choose to believe that it hadn't been thought through properly, but I won't believe that forever.

ClosdesMouches · 27/06/2021 10:59

Can anyone think of any reason for the move apart from wanting to up the number of posts on the other board (possibly to prove how active it would be if the GC posters didn't quash feminism discussion)

Turquoise, well TRAs certainly wanted it. MNHQ can't deny being fully aware if that.

One example. MNHQ Twitter account was engaged in a Twitter exchange with one of them who was whoop whooping "thanks Justine" in response to the board split. I found the exchange of particular interest as MN's Twitter account pointed out that the person thanking Justine is actually a PBP.

EndoplasmicReticulum · 27/06/2021 09:52

Any threads started in AIBU get moved too. It's the only topic where that happens as far as I can tell.

ErrolTheDragon · 27/06/2021 07:26

This is how many Internet forums work though, isn't it, OP? Moderators make judgements. Reddit nuked many entire boards.

They distort our contributions by moving them.

As a general issue - not specific to the feminist boards - it can be quite confusing to read a thread which has been moved, until you get to the post from MNHQ saying they've done this. (And not everyone RTFT).
A simple way to ameliorate this would be to put 'Moved from in the title, or inserted at the top of the first post. Ideally it would say whether the move was at the OPs behest or MNHQ.

NeonDreams · 27/06/2021 06:49

Why are people like Whistfulwisteria trying to silence the OP? She has a very valid point and should be allowed to vent, and to give a heads up to other posters. I knew the moderating of this site was so incredibly delete-happy but this is getting ridiculous. The moderators on here have no idea what they are even doing.

Original poster
stumbledin · 27/06/2021 00:00

I think if they think they "own" our postings, then they should pay us and we could enter into a proper contract.

But it is our contributions that make mumsnet sucessful / talked about.

They distort our contributions by moving them.

And quite honestly they are qualified to do it.

And if they think they are I would like to see the CVs and affiliations of those taking these decisions.

Being in an administrative position is just to ensure the product, in this case the mumsnet struture is in working order.

An administrators personal observations should be kept to themselves and certainly not be the basis on which they then editorialise.

OP posts:
porridgecake · 26/06/2021 22:41

There/ here. It is disconcerting typing a post in one place then realising it has appeared somewhere else.

porridgecake · 26/06/2021 22:40

The usual suspects have found the new place anyway. It is especially easy for them now that any threads mentioning sex/ gender are being coralled there. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

TurquoiseBaubles · 26/06/2021 22:29

I presume I'm not allowed to suggest that posters who don't want do discuss sex and gender "stay on their own board" as has been suggested to gender critical posters?

It seems sauce for goose/gander doesn't apply here.

ffs [sigh]

TurquoiseBaubles · 26/06/2021 22:27

Whatever about posts in Feminism chat being moved to Feminism sex and gender (which I think is bollocks, but is obviously going to happen, probably due to reporting, now the board split is active), I disagree completely with moves the other way around.

If anyone posts on this board, it is obvious they want the thread discussion premise to be that women have sex-based rights; moving it to the other board stymies that premise.

Can anyone think of any reason for the move apart from wanting to up the number of posts on the other board (possibly to prove how active it would be if the GC posters didn't quash feminism discussion). For myself, I don't intend to comment on any posts on Feminism: Chat; for me all Feminism discussion should be sex-based, and is therefore only suitable for this board.

KimikosNightmare · 26/06/2021 19:20

@ArabellaScott

Well, I posted a thread in 'Feminism Chat' and got attacked by several posters (new posters, funnily enough, who had little posting history) who said it was 'their board' now and gc posters weren't welcome.

Not very in the spirit, if you ask me.

If it's the thread I'm thinking of you weren't "attacked". Posters queried what the point of your thread was as it seemed to have little point beyond some sort of unspecific sneering at any one who isn't "gender critical".
ErrolTheDragon · 26/06/2021 19:00

What I have written doesn't "belong" to mumsnet. They are hosting it, and I accept can say we dont want to host that. But they cant coopt it to there own ends, ie trying to make the chat section more credible or whatever.

I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding of the t&cs suggests that actually, they can. I may be wrong - check what you think and if you find this tolerable.

www.mumsnet.com/info/terms-of-use

For avoidance of doubt, I don't think they should have moved your thread - you'd thought about where to put it, and your rationale makes sense to me. And I really hope you don't find the changes and terms unacceptable.

Original poster
stumbledin · 26/06/2021 17:36

To me it feels like (as someone who uses facebook) that I post a comment on WPUK page because I sort of assume I wll get response to an idea or statement from those with a similar political perspective about women's issues / women's rights and then facebook comes along and say "we think this is better suited as a topic of Fawcett's page so we have moved it".

The title of this page is not agreed on by anyone, and relates to something that doesn't exist. That somehow, we are still debating whether sex or gender if more real. Nobody is.

But as the actual URL ie the web link still says women's rights, this is where I want to post something, because everything about women is women's rights, and women's rights are needed because of sex based oppression

Added to which as an individual I have a right to my own intellectual freedom of expression. What I have written doesn't "belong" to mumsnet. They are hosting it, and I accept can say we dont want to host that. But they cant coopt it to there own ends, ie trying to make the chat section more credible or whatever.

And the "rules" that this thread has doesnot included a list of those topics which are or are not permitted.

Added to which they aren't even consistent. I have started other threads which aren't explicity about women's sex based rights, but about sex discrimination. And they have been left on FWR.

So I am coming round to the suggestion that it only got moved because I was "reported".

I think what is worse is I have had a few (not a deluge!) DMs saying they agree but dont want to say anything. But nice that they took the time to contact me.

So have mumsnet fallen? Are only the right sort of feminists allowed to post or comment?

But thanks for those who have said I have a point, and those who agree with me (phew)!

And of course the dedicated follower whose constant need to school me on correct thought kept bumping this thread up the board. Grin

I think right back at the beginning when this was all first rumoured, but not statement on the board inviting opinions, that wouldn't it just be easier to go back to FWR - as the URL (and google) recognises it to be.

OP posts:
Mulletsaremisunderstood · 26/06/2021 17:08

Whistfulwisteria
And maybe stop with all the posts about everyone else who is just getting on with it...
Many are getting on with it...

You seem very invested in women just 'getting on with it', basically move over, do what you're told, put up and shut up.

Same old sh!t really...

Coyoacan · 26/06/2021 16:36

No I didn't particularly ask for reasons as I didn't know how to go about it. I know I did not spread hate or misgender anyone unless referring to Joan of Arc as a woman is now a hate crime.

ClosdesMouches · 26/06/2021 15:45

Coyoacan did you ask them the reason for the deletion and if so did you get a reply?
I reported someone's deleted post a few days ago to ask for the deletion reason as I couldn't understand why it had been deleted.

HQ haven't even bothered to reply to me. Hmm

LadyFuHao · 26/06/2021 15:13

I wish we had clarity on the criteria for what is allowed where at least. I'm thoroughly confused at the moment.