What right to a single sex space do I have and how?

A transsexual is no different to any man when we are discussing single SEX spaces.

None of us have the right to not be offended.

You have said that you recognise that you are not female biologically Blue, that you are perfectly aware there are differences, so please do not seek to compel women's speech when we want to refer to those differences.

So politely asking for a phrase not to be used that causes offense to be us compeling speech?

You don't have a free pass to say what you like and when you cause offense use it against me. You don't get to decide for me that it's not offensive.

The phrase is offensive because it clearly decides that a transsexual is no different to any man.

So, Blue or any other transsexual out there, can I ask, if there was a nice, fourth mixed sex additional space designed for people who would be happy to use a unisex space, (so parents out with their young opposite sex children, trans people, people who are not bothered about needing a single sex space) would you use that in preference?

Waits ..

Women worldwide are facing an onslaught from male dominated international organisations, political parties and legislatures, police and judiciary who are even actively trying to erase any respect for women's needs or rights based on our distinct biological manifestation. Our discrete sex. Trying to coerce us into saying up is down without caring if we even think it is true. Without any reason, other than men's want/wish.

Male wishes seem to be powerful enough to change the world to women's detriment. I really think I need to give my full attention (and donations) to support those who are bravely standing up for women's human rights.

There are many issues I could be giving my support to, but for the moment this is important to my very safety, privacy and dignity.

How do accusations like this go down when directed at men? Or is it only women who are considered soft targets to berate?

I'm sorry for any offence experienced by transsexuals, but the phrase "males with a GRC" or similar is essential for us to name the problem for women's rights in allowing access to female only spaces. It's not possible to change one's biological sex, even though a legal fiction has been allowed that "gender" is legal sex. "Males with a GRC" is a non judgemental factual statement about biological sex. It applies to male people with a GRC in ways that it doesn't to female people with a GRC.

You have said that you recognise that you are not female biologically Blue, that you are perfectly aware there are differences, so please do not seek to compel women's speech when we want to refer to those differences.

So who cares about the transsexuals, they're all just men anyway? Take all our rights away.... problem solved if its made to be someone else's problem.

Correct, it is not women’s problem to solve, leave us alone.

kept going round in circles,

Of course it will. That’s why there’s no point discussing that. Not here anyway.

Ultimately a service can provide single sex spaces. Most places do have single sex spaces now. But a trans woman who genuinely considers herself to be a woman/ female can use the female space - just by walking in. Her belief that she is a woman is a protected belief. As is the belief that she is not. Same for trans men.

Third spaces won’t be seen as any sort of compromise because it’s still saying: ‘trans women are men. You can use the same space that men can use, but not one only women can use, because you are a man’. Although I’m sure lots/ most men and women would prefer proper floor to ceiling rooms instead of ‘cubicles’.

If a someone is going to go as far as hormones and surgery to address (genuine) sex dysphoria, they’re not going to be able to use the birth sex toilet. Making you (general GC you) a bit cross about it is going to be seen as the far lesser of two evils.

I propose an extremely radical solution. I don't suppose anyone has ever thought of it before. How about if women's spaces don't include the 'everyone' part? Women spaces become safer for women and girls (and the wee nippers under 8). Result: Women's spaces safer. The male bodied people can sort it out between themselves, instead of encroaching on our safety, privacy and dignity.

So who cares about the transsexuals, they're all just men anyway? Take all our rights away.... problem solved if its made to be someone else's problem.

'womens spaces become unsafe, for everyone.'

I propose an extremely radical solution. I don't suppose anyone has ever thought of it before. How about if women's spaces don't include the 'everyone' part? Women spaces become safer for women and girls (and the wee nippers under 8). Result: Women's spaces safer. The male bodied people can sort it out between themselves, instead of encroaching on our safety, privacy and dignity.

Women don’t consent to using a mixed sex space, unless that space is advertised as such. Therefore, when I enter the ladies room, it is entirely reasonable for me to expect only ladies/girls to be present.

Any male person using that space knows they shouldn’t really be there...

The problem is no one is enforcing the rules so they are wilfully being broken by males who then gleefully post footage of themselves in the ladies, online. Waves at Twitter.

It means I think a solution needs to be found that respects both women and transsexuals.

I agree. The problem doesn't lie with either of those groups really. The problem lies with aggressive, violent men who make transwomen feel uncomfortable and in many cases, intimidated and fearful. Once again, men violence is the problem, but men have turned attention away from that and have us arguing amongst ourselves.

The hole in the current 'use the space where you feel most comfortable' ideology is the fact that any aggressive man can now simply go in and use those spaces too in order to continue his harassment. He cannot be questioned or challenged, and womens spaces become unsafe, for everyone.

I've said it from the start, the only places safe for women now, are the mens spaces. Suggest to your brother, father, partner that he use the ladies toilets or changing rooms and I guarantee he'll look at you in horror. The men who are a threat will be heading to the ladies.

Transwomen is not a single entity. To do so categorises me alongside self ID.

So would you exclude some transwomen? What is your definition of a transwomen ?
Are you not questioning the existence of these other transwomen,,?

As opposed to the no fucks given for transsexuals?

Why is that a problem for women to solve? Campaign for third spaces.

So its OK to put me in a position where I could get raped but I should take comfort that action will be taken against the offender?

🤔

And yet, every day around the world, mums are expected to send millions of young, vulnerable, defenceless boys from the age of 8 or 9 into these very same male loos for a pee and they seem to be able to emerge without being attacked.

It doesn't add up.

So, Blue or any other transsexual out there, can I ask, if there was a nice, fourth mixed sex additional space designed for people who would be happy to use a unisex space, (so parents out with their young opposite sex children, trans people, people who are not bothered about needing a single sex space) would you use that in preference?

Or would you still choose to use the female toilets, bearing in mind that women who are strangers cannot know whether or not you possess a GRC or what type of surgery you may or may not have had and some women may feel a need to exclude themselves from a female space because of your presence?

The issue, for women is thar, as you have identified amd classified yourself - women and transsexuals are two distinct groups.

Believe me, I completely understand that you don't want to use male toilets and why. This is why the majority of women would support a third space.

But if women are saying no, and many are either verbally or with their feet and choices, then it doesn't matter how many people say it should he OK.

As said earlier, I've used public toilets (for example) with transsexuals. I've been polite, I've smiled, I've made small talk in front of the mirror but I've always also felt anxious. Every time. Why should I be made to feel like that? Why is someone else's right to feel safe, especially a male's, more important than mine when I've walked through a door marked 'Women'?

The problem time after time is that women are saying, "We understand why you feel unsafe in the men's..." and offering alternatives yet I've not seen a single TS, TG, TRA, trans ally or whoever ever, ever extend the same level of understanding or concern to women in return.

That, to me, is as much a part of the problem as anything.

It means I think a solution needs to be found that respects both women and transsexuals.

There is no solution, black is not white, up is not down.

I also think some do get a kick out of inserting themselves in our spaces, especially if we don't want them to.

Indeed they do.

We are truly in the land of the sillies, aren't we, what with the ridiculous complicity in avoiding correct sex identifying words?

Where is this phrase from: 'A man's a man for a' that!'? Ok, answer is Robert Burns.

I think the op's question is interesting. It would be useful for women and girls to have a grasp of our rights based on our sex. And make sure the parallel faux legal advice doesn't succeed in making us doubt ourselves. I think men on a whole don't really give a toss. I also think some do get a kick out of inserting themselves in our spaces, especially if we don't want them to. However, it matters to our safety, privacy and dignity.

We really are down to no fucks given for how many natal women have problems and are excluded aren't we?

As opposed to the no fucks given for transsexuals?

It's all so easy isn't it. If I don't relinquish my rights, disregard dysphoria and dysmorphia as if there is a magic switch and sacrifice myself then it proves I don't care about women.

It does not.

It means I think a solution needs to be found that respects both women and transsexuals.

Yeah, men never claim transgender status to access vulnerable women

And in the USA when Target made it's toilets all genders sexual assaults against women rocketed. In the UK [[https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html 90 % of sex attacks against women happen in unisex changing rooms]]

So whether or not it's tranwomen committing those assaults (and given the rate of offending in transgender women is no different than that of other men) then the only reasonable thing to do is to bar ALL males from women's safe spaces.

For those who are arguing against this, What is the acceptable level of sexual assault for women? One rape? 15? One per hundred users?

Transwomen share the same patterns of criminality as other males

Transwomen is not a single entity. To do so categorises me alongside self ID.

Transwomen share the same patterns of criminality as other males , with the same much higher likelihood of being violent or sex offenders than women, eg within only the last few months, at least 7 transwomen have been convicted of either serious sex offences or being in possession of child sex abuse pornography.