Page 6 | Compromise for new FWR section - could you support this?

shesellsseacats · 2021-06-11T16:55:07+00:00

Sex self ID / sex and gender and related questions are THE main topic of feminism at the moment. This shouldn't be hidden away. But fair enough, if people want a section that doesn't have this topic in it. So, how about MN keeps this main topic as Feminism Chat, same as now (all feminist related topics welcome) and then add a feminist sub-topic that's for those who don't want to discuss sex and gender. This will give those who want it, a section free from this discussion, but be much less of a moderation headache for MN. Win-win, no?! Could you get behind this? If so, what could the new sub-topic be called? (Some sensible answers, please! [grin] I'd love MN to take this seriously.)

Original poster

shesellsseacats · 11/06/2021 18:45

@UberMullet

Don't agree at all. Why should feminism just be a subset of discussions about sex and gender. It should be the other way round.

I'm saying there should be one section where you can discuss anything you like to do with feminism, that there should be no editorial decisions made.

And if people want a section that's free from this debate then that should be the sub-section.

Sex and gender touch so many issues in feminism, it's impractical to ban it from the main feminist board. Plus it's silencing women talking about feminist issues - not very feminist!

OP posts:

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 11/06/2021 18:45

They are going to change the board, i think i can safely say that

I agree that Feminism chat should be left alone and if others want a ‘new’ board then it can be requested and set up

I do not like the idea of the boards being labeled GC, or red fem or lib fem for example as that leads to further polarisation

StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind · 11/06/2021 18:44

@somethinginoffensive

Surely feminism chat is one of the best bits of Mumsnet? If people want different threads they can start them. If they want a separate section they can push for that as well. But surely feminism chat should be about whatever feminists want to chat about.

This. FWR is the main reason I'm on Mumsnet tbh, if they try to hide us away then I'll probably de-reg.

I doubt that worries anyone 😂 but @MNHQ should really consider what an own goal this would be.

Floisme · 11/06/2021 18:41

I know that and I can see where you're coming from op. I'm just not inclined to run around sorting out a problem that other people might have.

Toseland · 11/06/2021 18:41

Perhaps there should be a secret board for FWR regulars only?

StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind · 11/06/2021 18:41

If you don't like the idea - what else can you suggest? The plan to hide us away has come from the top - Justine.

Maybe lots of us will go elsewhere I guess. I don't know. It shouldn't change from what it is. More tinkering to appease a minority of dissenters... hmmm

UberMullet · 11/06/2021 18:40

Don't agree at all. Why should feminism just be a subset of discussions about sex and gender. It should be the other way round.

Original poster

shesellsseacats · 11/06/2021 18:40

If some people want to create their own space and they can persuade MNHQ that it's needed then, as far as I'm concerned let them set it up - it's up to them and I neither support nor oppose it

That's not what's being suggested.

Justine (The MNHQ original, it's her site, for newbies) is saying the plan is to purge THIS board of discussions on sex and gender - they would then make a new sub section to hide us all away in.

It's not about whether other people want to make a new section.

It's about whether WE get to keep THIS section.

OP posts:

Floisme · 11/06/2021 18:37

While I don't actively disagree with the op's idea, I don't think it's up to FWR posters to run around sorting this out. If some people want to create their own space and they can persuade MNHQ that it's needed then, as far as I'm concerned let them set it up - it's up to them and I neither support nor oppose it.

Original poster

shesellsseacats · 11/06/2021 18:36

@somethinginoffensive

Surely feminism chat is one of the best bits of Mumsnet? If people want different threads they can start them. If they want a separate section they can push for that as well. But surely feminism chat should be about whatever feminists want to chat about.

Well yes, agreed, but this plan comes from the top, so we'd better organise quickly and give MNHQ something that can work with or we're for the chop.

OP posts:

Original poster

shesellsseacats · 11/06/2021 18:34

@IvyTwines2

No - in the era where 'intersectionality' is the buzzword, why this attempt to ghettoise this key subject into another section, and why now? The timing rings alarm bells.

I'm suggesting the opposite!!

MNHQ are suggesting ghettoising us.

I'm suggesting we stay here but accept a sub-section that's free form sex and gender chat.

OP posts:

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/06/2021 18:34

Surely feminism chat is one of the best bits of Mumsnet? If people want different threads they can start them. If they want a separate section they can push for that as well. But surely feminism chat should be about whatever feminists want to chat about.

Yes, I think it's an extremely misguided plan, but there may be pressure behind the scenes to keep GC discussion corralled in its own topic.

Original poster

shesellsseacats · 11/06/2021 18:33

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

Nope.

Why does there need to be more than one feminism board? People are free to scroll by/hide any of the threads they aren't interested in.

There is one infant feeding board, for breastfeeding, bottlefeeding, weaning. If you want advice or to contribute to a thread about breastfeeding, you're welcome to ignore the bottlefeeding threads if it doesn't interest you, and vice versa.

There are currently 4 (or is it 5?) feminist boards.

From memory, there's Feminist Chat (here), also Feminist Activism, Feminist Book Club and ... erm... something else.

I bet most posters never visit the other boards (I don't despite good intentions!)

MNHQ's suggestion is to make the main section free from discussions on gender and sex, and hide us away in the doldrums.

I'm suggesting that if the lib fems want a board that's free from our discussion, they should be the sub-section, not us.

If you don't like the idea - what else can you suggest? The plan to hide us away has come from the top - Justine.

OP posts:

somethinginoffensive · 11/06/2021 18:32

Surely feminism chat is one of the best bits of Mumsnet? If people want different threads they can start them. If they want a separate section they can push for that as well. But surely feminism chat should be about whatever feminists want to chat about.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/06/2021 18:31

OP is correct in terms of what Justine has said on Site Stuff. It's not ideal but it's not her fault. It's a possible compromise. Don't shoot the messenger.

AyeRobot · 11/06/2021 18:30

And why now?

IvyTwines2 · 11/06/2021 18:30

No - in the era where 'intersectionality' is the buzzword, why this attempt to ghettoise this key subject into another section, and why now? The timing rings alarm bells.

Original poster

shesellsseacats · 11/06/2021 18:30

@StillFemale

Our sex and patriarchal attitudes of men are fundamentally why we need feminism and why males are not included in my definition of feminism. Gender stereotyping is one of the main reasons males are imposing that control on women in the west. I doubt any of us like the way Trans issues keep imposing on our lives but discussion of that is unavoidable if we’re going to talk about feminism

Yes, agreed. So, let's let the lib fems have their sub section and we keep FWR here.

The alternative as suggested by MNHQ is that we're all silenced on this board.

I can't believe they've thought this through - it will be a moderation nightmare for them!

My feeling is that just saying we don't like the idea probably won't get us as far as offering workable alternatives.

OP posts:

CorvusPurpureus · 11/06/2021 18:30

I think the onus is on those who want a feminism board free of gender issues, to request one.

If I wanted a new board for looking after Vietnamese pot bellied pigs & definitely no other pets, I'd ask for that, not insist that all the cat people shift out of the Litter Tray because me & my pigs want to, well, hog it.

Babdoc · 11/06/2021 18:29

May I add my vote against changing the current format of the board. If it ain’t broke- don’t fix it.
How is it in any sense “feminist” to hide our single most contentious issue and biggest threat to women’s rights, on a separate board? This smacks of a desperate attempt to silence us, or to shrink our potential audience.

AyeRobot · 11/06/2021 18:29

If anyone feels like there are too many threads on the trans issue, then they need to start threads on topics about which they'd like to discuss. As has been suggested since time immemorial, but it rarely happens. MN is not a magazine!

I seem to remember when the great FWR wars happened years ago that the equalists wanted a Human Rights board. I think it's still there but full of tumbleweed. Because really, some people just want women to stop talking about things where one has to think hard about what feminism means to them.

Original poster

shesellsseacats · 11/06/2021 18:28

The MNHQ version is from Justine and is on this thread.

The current plan seems so be to purge this board of radical and GC feminists and hive us off somewhere, while reorganising the whole FWR section.

It's a terrible idea, of course.

I thought my compromise might help save this board as we know it.

Does anyone have any other ideas?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/4267223-Any-chance-of-a-review-of-the-FWR-moderation-rules-in-light-of-Maya-Forstaters-success-in-court-please

OP posts:

StillFemale · 11/06/2021 18:28

Our sex and patriarchal attitudes of men are fundamentally why we need feminism and why males are not included in my definition of feminism. Gender stereotyping is one of the main reasons males are imposing that control on women in the west. I doubt any of us like the way Trans issues keep imposing on our lives but discussion of that is unavoidable if we’re going to talk about feminism

Original poster

shesellsseacats · 11/06/2021 18:25

@334bu

Shesellscats As someone who doesn't post on the FWR board, is this just because you have newly joined Mumsnet or because the threads are of no interest to you. Which threads would you like to be moved? What would you like to call it?

I'm a serial name changer but a FWR regular - I've been here 12 years and my motivation is to keep the Feminist Chat section as it is!

Have you seen, Mumsnet are planning to censor this section so we can't talk about sex and gender here anymore, and to hive us off into a sub-section.

I think that's a terrible plan.

I thought giving the people who don't like talk of sex and gender their own subsection would be a workable compromise.

We get to keep FWR, they get their section to talk about - whatever.

And MN don't get the moderation nightmare they seem to be planning on walking into.

If we don't persuade them to do otherwise, this section is for the chop as we know it.

OP posts:

Arbadacarba · 11/06/2021 18:24

These people don't want a friendly board when they can discuss feminist issues without reference to sex/gender issues. They want everyone else to stop talking about them, wherever that may be.

That's a sweeping generalisation which I don't think is true.