Well, that's us told

All that has changed is privileged students have adopted a set of gender identities that allow them to be considered marginalised.

The people we encountered were far from marginalised. In fact they were highly educated, openly classist and aggressive.

That's it in a nutshell. Genderism is a way for privileged people to identify as 'oppressed'.

Consider the female prisoner having to go to court to explain why she doesn't want to be forced to share with males.

Thanks for your posts yourhairiswinterfire, Datun & R0. A social experiment is being conducted on disenfranchised and marginalised women without their consent.

So the young woman who wrote this article is standing up for the right of privileged white men to stamp all over the rights of vulnerable women. And congratulating herself on how progressive she is.

Nailed it.

So the young woman who wrote this article is standing up for the right of privileged white men to stamp all over the rights of vulnerable women. And congratulating herself on how progressive she is.

This sums it up perfectly. This also applies to some of the regular visitors to this board.

The statement by The Depford People Project is excellent, and says it all.

The irony of dismissing women with concerns as privileged, middle-class etc is that it is the most underprivileged and vulnerable women who stand to suffer most as a result of self-ID. In other words, women in prison (overwhelmingly black and poor), women fleeing to domestic abuse centres, women seeking help from rape crisis centres, teenage girls in the US desperate for a sports scholarship to go to university (again predominantly black and not well off), Muslim teenagers who will give up sport rather than share a changing room with a member of the opposite sex.

So the young woman who wrote this article is standing up for the right of privileged white men to stamp all over the rights of vulnerable women. And congratulating herself on how progressive she is.

**

Watch out for accusations of crop withering!

Previous thread OP BloodyFreezing wrote Sat 24-Mar-18:

"The Deptford People Project and the impact of self-ID and transactivism on working class women
Interesting interview with Lucy McDonagh, co-founder of the Deptford People Project in this article:

www.feministcurrent.com/2018/03/23/leftist-women-uk-refuse-accept-labours-attempts-silence-critiques-gender-identity/ "

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3203804-The-Deptford-People-Project-and-the-impact-of-self-ID-and-transactivism-on-working-class-women

Feminist Current article by Meghan Murphy linked above:
(extract)
"Lucy Mcdonagh grew up working class, raised by a single mother. Her life as a young woman was marked by addiction, abuse, poverty, and mental health issues. She managed to escape a relationship with an extremely violent man at 32-years-old, after being partnered with him for 10 years. “My experience of being a working class woman and the level of trauma carried by many working class people has been my driving force since I was young,” Mcdonagh told me.

“All I have ever wanted to do is to try and empower working class people into supporting ourselves and, in doing so, empower our community. Being working class isn’t just about poverty. It’s about resilience and an unspoken understanding of violence. We don’t talk about our struggles because that places us at greater harm.” (continues)

"She tells me there is “a very real lack of understanding about female victims of abuse, their need for sex-segregated spaces, and their need to be protected from predatory men.” But it has become impossible to debate or even discuss these issues. “Suddenly (mainly) white middle class students were shouting down and abusing working class women for expressing concern,” she says. “These people were bullying real victims into [submitting to] their ideology — women who have spent their lives being forced to accept situations they don’t want.”

Mcdonagh says she doesn’t believe that “a rich white boy” can “understand the needs of a working class ex-care system woman, raped and abused for decades by many different men — a woman living in a world that won’t ever feel safe again and who is bringing up children in a community that is suffering [due to] poverty, abuse, and trauma.”

“I couldn’t sit back a watch this final episode of ‘Gentrification Deptford’ invade the only thing that working class women have left: their experience.”

Mcdonagh and her group were concerned about how the proposed changes might affect services for women like her and those she worked with. Yet the questions they have are not being answered. They worry about how they will be able protect the women they work with from males who need only self-identify as female in order to access women’s spaces and about whether or not a “small, unfunded, grassroots organization [will be able to] challenge the law for the greater good if needed.” They also want to know whether challenging such a law could jeopardize their access to funding in future.

“Working class women know the lengths that abusers will go to get access to their victims,” she said. “We know this because we have lived it.”

“I fear that just the possibility that a male-bodied person [whether a client or staff member] could access a women-only service would be enough for, for example, our Muslim women’s community to avoid those spaces,” Mcdonagh says. “We are still trying to access hard to reach women and this would definitely make it more difficult.” (continues)

Ooh R0wantrees thank you! I was hoping you'd remember.

[quote ConfusedAdultFemale]@risefromyourgrave how difficult is it to grow them indoors? I’ve so far failed at growing wild flowers and bonsai trees, though I had some gorgeous sunflowers last year (don’t advise growing these indoors. Sat on the windowsill they ended up taller than the window).[/quote]
I’m finding them ok so far, I only have one in a pot, the others are still getting their roots in water. The one in a pot seems to be doing well, it’s got sprouts and everything! I tried to take a photo to show off the leafy beauty but it just looked rubbish and would not help my begonia Rex agenda!

Wonder if the next article slagging off mumsnet will refer to ‘out of touch gardeners’ now.

It was back in the beginning when women were just starting to gather and I'm not sure there was a specific outcome, just awareness raising.

That statement though has been viewed considerably, as an instantly recognisable phenomenon.

Because working class women at the coal face aren't listened to, either.

Consider the female prisoner having to go to court to explain why she doesn't want to be forced to share with males.

The author of this piece isn't listening to anyone.

We are now informed that transgender people are being routinely abused (mis gendered) and should be protected above all other marginalised groups. All that has changed is privileged students have adopted a set of gender identities that allow them to be considered marginalised.

The people we encountered were far from marginalised. In fact they were highly educated, openly classist and aggressive.

This new politics doesn’t equate in our community or for the people we support. We are dealing with working class issues with severely marginalised people and the trans lobby is a gentrification of working class social and political movements. Note the difference between trans lobby and trans people who we support.

The statement by The Depford People Project was made prior to The House of Commons 'We Need to Talk' meeting March 2018:
www.facebook.com/lubelluledotcom/posts/10156110925077980

This meeting in House of Commons, hosted by David Davies MP (Conservative for Monmouth not Haltemprice and Howden) was arranged by Venice Allen after TRAs lobbied Millwall FC to cancel the booking for women to meet to discuss proposed changes to GRA 2004.

SEPTEMBER 24, 2018 Feminist Current interview with Venice Allen:
(extract)
"The events’ manager stumbled on for about a week and then finally the club shut it down. I think it was Kelly Maloney [a boxing organizer previously known as Frank Maloney until he transitioned in his 60s, who attempted to strangle his wife, citing difficulties with his gender identity] — he’s a Millwall fan — who got it shut down. Maloney had been messaging me on Twitter, wanting to talk about the event, saying, “We should meet for a glass of wine.” By that point I was really determined to have a public meeting. We had loads of help with people contacting me to suggest different venues. I called the House of Commons and found out you just needed to get sponsorship from an MP in order to book a Committee Room." (continues)
www.feministcurrent.com/2018/09/24/interview-irrepressible-venice-allan-fight-changes-uk-gender-recognition-act/

Unsuccessful attempts were made to prevent the Westminster meeting and also to have David Davies MP disciplined.

Andrew Gilligan tweet, "Latest bullying transgender complaint (against David Davies MP over We Need to Talk meeting) has been swiftly rejected by parliamentary standards commissioner"

Link to doc embedded:
www.parliament.uk/documents/pcfs/not-upheld/davidtcdaviesnotupheld.pdf

(extract)
'Letter from the Commissioner to Cllr Zoë O'Connell, 23 May 2018
I wrote to you on 27 March 2018 to say that I was beginning an inquiry into your allegation of a breach of House of Commons rules by Mr David TC Davies MP. I am writing now to let you know the outcome.
I have corresponded with Mr Davies and I have consulted the Serjeant at Arms.
Having considered carefully the evidence I have obtained, I do not uphold the allegation.'
[[https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3263172-Andrew-Gilligan-Latest-bullying-transgender-complaint-swiftly-rejected-by-parliamentary-standards-committee]

In October 2018 David Davies MP revealed in TalkRadio interview that he had "been threatened with police action by a Conservative MP for holding meetings to discuss transgender concerns."
twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1052203110335217664

It's a tactic. To label women - white, middle-class, privileged, frothing, young mother, old mother, hysterical, fear mom gering, complacent, prudish, ranting, mean, middle aged, radical, pearl clutching - any old contradictory rubbish.

When what they actually mean is non consenting.

No.

I often think of the mumsnetter called Detroit. Who has to be homeless rather than forced to consent.

I bet she'd give her right arm to own her own dishwasher.

Datun
Interesting post. Do you know the outcome? Did they get any acknowledgement?

AgentCooper

It's a very illuminating statement. Thanks, Datun.

Thanks for sharing that Datun, I haven't seen that statement before.

All the articles about Mumsnet peddle the following stereotypes:

1. Middle-class women are ghastly.
2. Mothers are stupid people only interested in prams, nappies and potty training.
3. Middle-aged women are pathetic and clueless.

Then there's always a sentence expressing surprise. "I thought Mumsnet was full of ghastly, stupid, pathetic and clueless women! Imagine my horror when I realised that they have opinions about stuff."

It's amazing that you get this guff from young women who themselves are middle-class and who will one day also (probably) be mothers and (certainly) middle-aged. As prejudices go, it's utterly self-sabotaging. What you mock today, one day you will be.

This. Epic self own.

So, by her logic, only unprivileged women should be taken any notice of.

As a dishwasher-owning middle class white woman, why does she think anyone should listen to her?

Absolutely, bernard!

@yourhairiswinterfire

This statement, from a year or two back, is very relevant, I believe.

"Statement from Working class community workers from Deptford. We are attending the women’s meeting at the House of Commons today. We would like to offer an explanation as to why this is necessary. See below

After many years of working at grass roots within our community we have recently been made aware of an issue that directly effects the working class and women in our area.

You must understand we are not graduate activists or or women’s rights campaigners. We are community workers and our concerns regarding changes to the GRA come from a lifetime of personal experience and having worked with some of the most marginalise people in our area.

The majority of our recent projects have been working with rough sleepers, the homeless and those that have been excluded from society. The issues they face include: unsupported/ mental health illness, sexual violence and prostitution, childhood trauma and abuse...

domestic violence, poverty, ex care system issues, addiction, prison,rehab,homelessness and austerity.

The people in our community that we represent are the most likely to access/ be placed in sex segregated services.Some have and will access all of these services.

Our local political and community organisations have been infiltrated by a group of well meaning white middle class goldsmith (uni) students. These people although well intentioned have rail roaded many vital projects by introducing identity policies and intersectional thinking. They do this without truly understanding or experiencing working class issues.

Meetings we have attended for the purpose of discussing community housing projects and women’s wellness etc have been used as a platform to re educate working class people on the new academic language expected within our organisations.

As anyone from a working class back ground will tell you, these theories and ideologies rarely translate into working class communities.

The extremely small number of transsexual (I use the old term as this has a very different meaning to the university umbrella term currently thrown about) members of the community are and have always been excepted and protected by community organisations.

We are now informed that transgender people are being routinely abused (mis gendered) and should be protected above all other marginalised groups. All that has changed is privileged students have adopted a set of gender identities that allow them to be considered marginalised.

The people we encountered were far from marginalised. In fact they were highly educated, openly classist and aggressive.

This new politics doesn’t equate in our community or for the people we support. We are dealing with working class issues with severely marginalised people and the trans lobby is a gentrification of working class social and political movements. Note the difference between trans lobby and trans people who we support.

No one will discuss our concerns regarding self id. Our local Labour Party has refused to comment or debate with the working class people.

We are attending the meeting this evening as this is only place that is willing to discuss theses issues.

When we are being verbally abused and called fascists because we are concerned about the effects of policy change on marginalised people it is a direct attack on working class women and grass roots organisations.

when sharing information about this event and attempt to shut it down be aware that you are complicit in the silencing of not only women but working class people who have not afforded the privileged of a safe space or university education. Thank you x

@AfternoonToffee well obviously the middle aged women here (what constitutes middle aged?) are responsible for corrupting those of us who aren’t middle aged (assuming I’m not, not entirely sure though). But as soon as those of us who aren’t middle aged reach middle age, we become the corrupters and the younger ones become the corrupted. Essentially we’re all bad, but middle aged women are badder.

Or some shite like that. Personally I think I was corrupted by the sexual and physical violence towards me that I’ve experienced throughout my life, but those kind journalists that keep talking about things they don’t understand put me in my place. It’s definitely middle aged women that have corrupted me.

Yes Bernard

I don't get the phrase 'plays on real fears.'

She admits there are real fears..And promptly dismisses them.???

Interesting article, thank you for posting