Transman Prinz Chiyo Gomes splits gay community: gay man accused of hate

Thank you very much! He is well he is currently off on a tour right now and I can’t say I’m not a bit jealous! Yes I agree and I’m sure that’s the case 😀

I adore this thank you for showing me 🥰

As an aside, @GeorgiaPass. I hope your friend, Prinz is doing well and is happy.

There will be hoards of people on here who all hope for the same.

Hi,
Thanks for your response and that is why I have tried to use varying language in my comments as I don’t know who is here and so would not want to exclude on purpose.

That makes total sense to me and thank you because I think my original comment was now perhaps too passionate (I still love Chiyo and think he is wonderful) but I should have backed up my other comments I will have a delve around my resources and see what might be best.

I've just bumped that thread. I missed it the first time round.

@GeorgiaPass whether the women here are right or wrong, this sums up (for me) where we're coming from:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4373885-I-wrote-a-poem

Uh oh.

That's it, @GeorgiaPass. Once you make the joke you are one of us...

Welcome.

I’m sure they would love it - you might not get the apologies though!

Thanks also for not making me run around the playing field that would not end well!

We also don't try to convince by emotion or force of character - if we can offer evidence we will.

Add to that - wit.

About 20 minutes after David Lammy called us dinosaurs my social media was full of dinosaur avatars.

There was a protest outside the Lancet because they described women as "bodies with vaginas". The women turned up in those blow up dinosaur suits. Hilarious.

By way of contrast, the gender enthusiasts seem to have no ability to self deprecate at all. No humour. No fun. It's a serious business, navel gazing.

ROOOOOAAAAR

(I think that might actually translate to fuck off make of it what you will)

X

Sorry..

clicky link

yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/12/22/cancel-culture-what-views-are-britons-afraid-expre

It is. And, as anyone, lurker or otherwise, can see, is not how we tend to work here. We may go too far the other way and drown you in links, data, information

We also don't try to convince by emotion or force of character - if we can offer evidence we will.

maybe see if any of your friends are up for a robust debate here too?!

sadly, we know that this might be fraught with danger for those relationships. We hear from many people just how terribly that goes.

You only have to look at this yougov survey to know how protective people are around friends on certain topics.

yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/12/22/cancel-culture-what-views-are-britons-afraid-expre

A majority of Britons (57%) say they have, at least sometimes, found themselves stopping themselves from expressing their political or social views for fear of judgement or negative responses from others.

Women are also more likely to have held their tongue than men (62% vs 52%).

Indeed it follows on from this Frank Luntz's UK study mid 2021 that found:

-29 per cent have stopped talking to someone over something political they said — while 22 per cent have had someone shun them over their views.
-And some 53 per cent of 18 to 29-year-olds have even cancelled friendships because of pals’ views.

I see the conversation has moved on and I'm a bit late with this comment, but I just wanted to note this by @GeorgiaPass: were I talking to a different group that included men and non binary or gender non conforming people? Others have already addressed the point about gender non-conformity, but FYI I'm a man and I read here. I would guess that I am not the only male lurker, although we're almost certainly outnumbered by women. So you are talking to a mixed sex audience, even if most of the posters are women. That will be true almost everywhere you go on the internet - lurkers vastly outnumber posters and don't always have the same demographics.

I wanted to comment on the "educate yourself" thing. It always seems to come as an instruction, with no recommendation of resources from which one can learn. That ought to be a red flag that it's not a genuine suggestion, but rather is being used as a conversation killer. It means that not only am I not prepared to justify my beliefs, but that I will put the burden of even finding where you can find out about my beliefs on your shoulders, and will regard it as a moral failing if you do not or can not find them or don't agree with what you find. It's a form of "shifting the burden of proof" fallacy, I think, where I make a claim (transpeople NEED xyz) but leave the task of supporting it to you.

freedom of thought, freedom of expression and free speech. All this is very much welcomed here.

no, it's not.

and the need to do better should not always be expected as it isn’t needed

Yes, you're right, it isn't needed. Speak plainly, express yourself as you wish but ensure that people understand the message you want to get across. If you have an honestly held opinion then share it and don't apologise. Explain why you think a certain way if asked in the way we have ever day conversations.

An example of plain speaking below:

You don't deserve this. It's unfair, it's outrageous and I'm absolutely furious on your behalf.

I am also furious on behalf of young females, everywhere, regardless of how they identify, that they be coerced into not being able to say what they think of fear of some kind of negative consequences or backlash.

The passion that you arrived here with Georgia that you used to defend your friend would be better channeled, in my view, to standing up for yourself, exercising your basic human right to freedom of thought, freedom of expression and free speech. All this is very much welcomed here.

We can be led to feel that our misunderstanding or understanding whichever way you want to look at it is incorrect sometimes (which of course is true in cases)

Of course it is true in some cases. But if someone is telling you that you are wrong, and you cannot see where you have gone wrong, don't suppress that intuitive feeling that something isn't making sense and that you are obviously the one in the wrong. I, personally, go looking for evidence now.

I say this, but of course, it was coming onto Mumsnet to try to understand what is happening females of all ages that made me see this was the best approach. No sacred groups, ever. Of any kind.

Sadly, even idols too often have clay feet.

I love this thread!

Young woman posts, gets arse handed to her, meekly apologises and promises to do better.

Instead of accepting her apology and making her run round the playing field 20 times as punishment MN says 'No! Don't apologise. Be yourself, have your own thoughts and stand up for what is important to you, not anyone else.'

@GeorgiaPass stay! Join in and maybe see if any of your friends are up for a robust debate here too?!

Georgia you can keep the dino suit if you give me a roar.

Alternatively, tell me to fuck off.

My heart really does go out to the younger generation of females of all persuasions dealing with this kind of crap. You don't deserve this. It's unfair, it's outrageous and I'm absolutely furious on your behalf.

Yes. It's also a misrepresentation of what 'kindness' actually involves. Whenever the topic comes up I always think of finding miximatosis infected rabbits. If you left it to live, it would suffer and die a horrible death. The 'kind' thing to do was to bash it over the head and kill it as swiftly as possible.

Kindness is sometimes doing a difficult thing, an unpleasant thing or even something that others will attack you for. It needs courage and clear sight and thoughtfulness - blindly following diktats that are built on shifting sands and muddled ideologies is not 'kindness' - as a pp said, it's just compliance.

OP, I am working on RTFT now and would like to echo others in that from what I've read so far - stills but to go but wanted to chip in now - I can see you are sticking around and engaging. I'm really glad to see that

Off to continue reading ...

We can be led to feel that our misunderstanding or understanding whichever way you want to look at it is incorrect sometimes

Pretty much a textbook definition of gaslighting. Persuading you to lower your boundarie,s against your better judgement, by convincing you that it's YOU that's wrong, that you've misunderstood, that they really didn't mean it like that, that you're overreacting....

My heart really does go out to the younger generation of females of all persuasions dealing with this kind of crap. You don't deserve this. It's unfair, it's outrageous and I'm absolutely furious on your behalf.

Can I keep mine a bit longer? just for the memories? 😂