The cognitive dissonance from 'TWAW' women

”Anyone presenting or identifying as female is equally at risk, and trans women are fundamentally -more- at risk as data shows.”

Yet when you ask to see the supposed data, you never get an answer — naturally, since it’s not true. But obviously none of these educated people have ever bothered to look up the easily available information. Or worse, they know it’s a lie, and they willingly repeat it.

They also seem to think feminism is some catch-all dustbin for every 'identity' and 'marginalised movement' rather than something that is by women for women.

Oh God yes this - I am SO SICK AND TIRED of having to accept all comers to the tribe of Feminism. I want it for me, for adult human females who have XX chromosomes. The women the suffragettes were talking about. Every one else can start their OWN movement.

Why shouldn’t men have the right to dress as they please and look after themselves, why does society dictate they can’t do this and that it is just the right of women? . How else can they express themselves and look nice without others calling them women ( think how many manly men in the 90s loved bright ties and socks by way of expression ) The conclusion of this whole ideology seems to have been made within the narrow confines of ‘today’s’ subjective reality rather than within the context of reality. This suppression of men’s ability to dress as they please is a recent historical phenomenon. It doesn’t exist in nature or even seem to exist ‘primitive’ cultures.

It doesn’t mean TW are actually females though. Maybe we help men redefine what it means to be masculine, which doesn’t mean they have to go to the absurdity of changing sex. At least then we will have a better chance of defending our sex based

Please share!

Caitlin Moran isn't my cup of tea in the first place. Funny to see she's throwing women under the bus. I can't be doing with people who delete what they've said or grovel after the fact. It's just more of "I'm not one of the bad guys!"

Caitlin Moran has just apologised to transwomen for not centering them in her (emotional, heartfelt, scared) tweets yesterday.

www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-trans-people-murdered-uk

kareningalasmith.com/2019/10/17/comparing-uk-homicide-perpetration-and-suspect-rates-for-male-female-and-trans-people-april-2007-march-2018/

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3080711-UK-transgender-murder-rate

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

[quote Nettersrunboulder86]@Doyoumind do you have a link to the Twitter thread. I’m seeing a lot of that on SM and I’m interested to see the stats[/quote]
It's one that a couple of people have mentioned on the thread.

Channel 4 did a fact check article a while ago which is a good place to get some basic stats.

I was confused about how the hell this all happened -and helped me understand AGP

Have you seen some of the examples in this thread - amidst all the humour there is an eye-opening number of accounts of people using predominantly female groups or classes in this way (yoga etc.):

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4186758-arseholes-who-ve-ruined-groups-and-hobbies?

I think the PP who mentioned that it's an issue of privilege probably got it right. Before your sexed female body really does the dirty on you, you're far more inclined to be "kind" and swallow the status quo.

I was pretty clueless about the full implications of the limitations placed on women by their biology until I started a family.

My husband and I had kids with the idea that we were in an equal partnership - but it was me that was temporarily disabled by SPD, suffered miscarriages, difficult births, PTSD, breastfeeding and ultimately fucked my career over by breeding. He got a few sleepless nights and kissed goodbye to his weekends. That's biology - and it's why we need feminism.

As a privileged, white, middle class young woman, I just didn't really get it.

I do now!

I was going to start a thread on similar lines. My genuine belief is that a large proportion of these people saying TWAW don't actually believe it. They don't actually believe you don't know someone's sex until they announce their gender, they don't believe TW are women in every conceivable way. It's a bit of an intellectual exercise, a 'well actually' but not an ingrained belief. (That's not to say there aren't people who think and live like this, and are embedded in trans culture and the trans community - I'm not including them in in this, just the casual 'twaw' supporters who take potshots at GC women).

I have come to this conclusion after several years on here. It is extremely common to see these people, who state they believe TWAW, slip up and refer to them as the wrong gender, wrong pronoun, etc (or confuse trans men and trans women, for example). There was a period not long ago where I saw it every day. Drawing attention to it made them angry and they said it was 'just a mistake' but I really don't think you would actually call someone by the wrong pronoun if you thoroughly believed them to be that sex. It would seem wrong.

If you genuinely believe TWAW you will likely need to examine and rearrange your whole 'belief system' as it were, your concept of people and who they fundamentally are and what sex is. I don't think a lot of people have done this.

I think when most people say TWAW, they mean 'we should treat TW as if they were biological women, in every/nearly every circumstance' (depending on whether they recognise TW bodies are different e.g. they won't need maternity services).

I think there's a fair bit of this: 'a notion women may have that by being "good" we can escape the degraded status of females and achieve a status of citizen or honorary man', as though by doing the right thing by the patriarchy they will be saved from it. I also think there's a lot of a kind of victim-blaming to the position, as if the women who are going to be most affected by the removal of things like single-sex spaces are somehow in the wrong for being adversely affected, such as religious women (shouldn't be religious), women in prison (shouldn't be in prison), women who have a history of trauma (shouldn't have been assaulted, abused or attacked in the first place).

Oh I saw Caitlin Moran had deleted something because I saw a bunch of TRAs quoting her and telling her off, but her original tweet had gone.
Bloody ridiculous that a woman can't mention her womb without being piled on.

Here is a perfect example from Caitlin Moran who knows exactly what a woman is because she makes a living from writing about them but

Just listening to Jess Phillips on BBC news.

Brilliant woman!

Feminism is for, and about girls and women.
(Females)

They also seem to think feminism is some catch-all dustbin for every 'identity' and 'marginalised movement' rather than something that is by women for women.

This cannot be stated enough.

JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown

all I can say is 'oh dear!'. The hatred of women that twidiot has is just incredible.

I agree with a lot of the points made already, particularly around "being kind" and political identity.

I also think there might be something about some liberal people not knowing how to cope with a clash of rights. As a liberal left-wing progressive, you have a clear idea of who the "goodies" and the "baddies" are (homophobia = bad, gay rights = good). But here we have two "oppressed" groups with a clash of interests. And in those cases, you need to be able to critically analyse the arguments and issues at play. Mantras aren't going to wash. That's where the cognitive dissonance comes in: "Feminism good! Oh, but hang on trans rights good too...erm..."

GC feminists get described as "trans exclusionary" but it's clear that many of us here have sympathy with trans people, and are concerned for their safety and wellbeing, even if we don't always understand their motivations, or agree with their worldview. It could have gone very differently if TRAs hadn't decided that trans rights trump women's rights in such a definite and brutal way.

There's definitely a tendency for women to feel sorry for men who are bullied or pushed out of male spaces, and so the women feel they should automatically welcome these men into their own groups or spaces.
Some men clearly see this weakness and are happy to exploit it by then dominating women's spaces once they are allowed to be a part of it.

It's a shame these women feel more for men than other women who are uncomfortable with men being allowed into female groups and spaces.

I don't really understand it tbh. I came across a thread on Sarah Everard on twitter this morning.
Part of it descended into the usual arguments about trans issues but the man actually posted as a response that "..the real issue is that cis women are prioritising their own safety..."
I was actually really shocked by it.
I mean I know that some men really don't care about women's safety but I guess the blatancy of it still took me by surprise.

One thing that really woke me up was being groped by a gay male friend. It really snapped me into realising that there is no "safe" category of male. Some males simply see women as objects and lesser humans. Regardless of personality, sexuality, identity, or position.

Let's hope some of them made the (not very difficult) intellectual leap. I suppose they'll want a fucking medal for it. Like they seem to want a medal for Not being a rapist with that #Notallmen shit.

I can't get my head around it either. I feel extremely embarrassed for them to be honest. How can they not see how damaging this ideology is for women and girls? I think privilege plays some part. They are lucky I suppose not to think about the things some humans are capable of.

@Doyoumind I'd also be grateful for the link. I'd be really interested in seeing accurate stats on violence against women compared to violence against TW.