Merseyside Police

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 2021-03-02T14:36:50+00:00

If there’s a thread on this already I’ll ask for this to be deleted, but I just saw this and find it very, very scary: [[https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1363627584236437504]] Merseyside Police proclaiming to the public that: “BEING OFFENSIVE IS AN OFFENCE” With a massive rainbow alongside just to make it absolutely clear who no one is allowed to be “offensive” to. I mean, didn’t we have a JR recently where the judge ruled the exact opposite? That being offensive is ^not^ an offence, that nobody is entitled never to be offended? That it’s a ^good^ thing we’ve never had a Gestapo or Cheka or Stasi here? Isn’t this literally the police rewriting the law themselves? I’m really struggling to look at this picture and not think “police state”. Chilling effect.

Original poster

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 03/03/2021 13:24

@hallouminatus

There's another thread about this: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4173195-Being-offensive-is-an-offence, but it hasn't been posted on for over a week.

Thanks for that link, hallouminatus, good thread.

Seeing as it’s in AIBU I think this one can stand too!

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Original poster

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 03/03/2021 13:23

yes it was a foolish thing to do

Again, I am surprised at how you choose to downplay this, Justhadathought. A police force taking it upon themselves to actively misrepresent the law and apparently seeking illegally to criminalise people for exercising wholly legitimate freedom of thought and speech is not “foolish”! Most people who cherish the right to live in a free society would find it absolutely horrifying, I believe.

I don't share the "de-fund the police" narratives which seem popular in some circles, and neither do most people.

No more do I share that narrative, nor has anyone expressed that on here. As I said upthread, I see an impartial, politically neutral, accountable police force as one of the cornerstones of democracy, of a free society.

The problem with too many police forces across the UK, not just Merseyside Police, is that this impartiality seems to have been grievously undermined, and no one is holding them to account over it. That is grounds for addressing the issue of police neutrality/accountability, not for scrapping the police altogether.

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Original poster

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 03/03/2021 13:11

[quote Ereshkigalangcleg]The fauxpology:

twitter.com/merpolwirral/status/1363802799054684164?s=21[/quote]
Thanks for the link, Eresh. It’s far from fulsome, to be sure.

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ShaneTheThird · 02/03/2021 17:13

Merseyside police are also my police force. They are a disgrace. No one i know bothers to report crimes now because they dont bother. Bike thefts, assault on shop staff, being held up at knifepoint and muggings have all been reported by me in the past and every single time i have been given a crime number and no investigation an no outcome. They are a disgusting organisation who are bullys and use exsessive force whenever they think they can, as also referenced by this bullshit they are spreading about being offensive is an offence.

SerendipityJane · 02/03/2021 16:45

Jane's rule is that it only counts if it's bigger than the original fuckup.

I'm not saying I am a close friend, but it's nice to know some people dio share my views ...

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/02/meghan-asks-for-front-page-apology-and-750000-costs-from-mail-on-sunday

Meghan had asked for an interim payment of £750,000. She is also demanding a front-page apology, and a high court order forcing the newspaper to hand over any copies it has made of the letter, and destroy any copies of it or notes made about it.

Justhadathought · 02/03/2021 16:27

You really need to think bigger than your little corner of the world sometimes.

I don't require you to remind me of that but I don't share the "de-fund the police" narratives which seem popular in some circles, and neither do most people.

The title of the thread, however, was/is 'Merseyside Police' - which happens to be the police force where I currently live, so I feel quite qualified to comment.

hallouminatus · 02/03/2021 16:26

There's another thread about this: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4173195-Being-offensive-is-an-offence, but it hasn't been posted on for over a week.

Ninkanink · 02/03/2021 16:21

You really need to think bigger than your little corner of the world sometimes...

Some overarching principles matter a great deal. This is one of them.

However it’s quite clear that you’re either unwilling to see, or possibly incapable of understanding, the wider implications, so I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this.

Justhadathought · 02/03/2021 16:13

I will state my opinion as I see fit, given that I am a member of the public. I expect the police to act lawfully, and to understand how to do so. Mistakes of this kind have happened a lot and it needs pulling up every time, because it has the potential to very quickly become dangerous

Of course.....but personally think you were going off on one; a bit of a rant about the police generally.

I live in the city that this force represents, and yes it was a foolish thing to do.....but your description of the police as an institution is not one that most people in the city of Liverpool would share.

SerendipityJane · 02/03/2021 16:12

[quote Ereshkigalangcleg]The fauxpology:

twitter.com/merpolwirral/status/1363802799054684164?s=21[/quote]
Jane's rule is that it only counts if it's bigger than the original fuckup.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/03/2021 16:04

The fauxpology:

twitter.com/merpolwirral/status/1363802799054684164?s=21

Ninkanink · 02/03/2021 15:39

I can’t believe anyone would downplay how deadly serious this is. An impartial, politically neutral, accountable police force is one of the cornerstones of democracy, of a free society. If that is compromised, we are all in big trouble. The capture of multiple police forces by a political lobbying group is one of the most deeply concerning aspects of transactivism.

This.

I can only conclude that people who don’t grasp it weren’t around to see the natural consequences only a relatively few years ago. I was. I remember.

Original poster

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 02/03/2021 15:24

@Ereshkigalangcleg

As for the banner on the police van; someone higher up apologised for that.

I've read this "apology" and it really wasn't one.

What a surprise.

And I bet there was no equivalent massive banner to say “being offensive is NOT an offence” displayed for the same length of time in the same location, was there?

So all the people that saw that banner in the first place and never saw the apology (or fauxpology) are now potentially under the misapprehension that “being offensive” actually is a hate crime. And some of those people may well tell other people that. And so the fake news spreads. So the lies spread.

I can’t believe anyone would downplay how deadly serious this is. An impartial, politically neutral, accountable police force is one of the cornerstones of democracy, of a free society. If that is compromised, we are all in big trouble. The capture of multiple police forces by a political lobbying group is one of the most deeply concerning aspects of transactivism.

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Liquorishtoffee · 02/03/2021 15:22

@Ereshkigalangcleg

As for the banner on the police van; someone higher up apologised for that.

I've read this "apology" and it really wasn't one.

Sorry - apology should have been ‘apology’.

SerendipityJane · 02/03/2021 15:22

I'm a great fan of what you might call additive deduction. It's what happens when you add news stories or threads together.

Here's another thread about the police.

Just for balance, you understand.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4180487-To-think-this-is-unbelievably-shit-from-the-police

Original poster

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 02/03/2021 15:14

@Justhadathought

Putting an an appropriate banner on the side of the van was a very stupid thing to do, but it was not " thuggish".

I disagree.

Sending a message that completely misrepresents the law and had the intention of making people frightened they would be criminalised for expressing legitimate thoughts and feelings - that is thuggish. It’s bullying.

And even if the initiative did come from another department, surely it’s not unreasonable to expect those serving police officers to have a working knowledge of the law.

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/03/2021 15:14

As for the banner on the police van; someone higher up apologised for that.

I've read this "apology" and it really wasn't one.

Ninkanink · 02/03/2021 15:10

Generalised as in the Police as an institution. It should be quite clear that I’m talking about instances of this sort, not every officer all the time.

You don’t have to agree with me, and neither does anyone else.

I will state my opinion as I see fit, given that I am a member of the public. I expect the police to act lawfully, and to understand how to do so. Mistakes of this kind have happened a lot and it needs pulling up every time, because it has the potential to very quickly become dangerous.

I’m sorry if that upsets you, but sometimes things still need to be said.

Justhadathought · 02/03/2021 15:08

inappropriate

Merseyside Police have long been involved with local Pride events since the murder of young gay man, Michael Causer, in the city.

Justhadathought · 02/03/2021 15:07

Putting an an appropriate banner on the side of the van was a very stupid thing to do, but it was not " thuggish".

Justhadathought · 02/03/2021 15:06

The police as an institution need taking in hand.They are no longer fit for purpose. They no longer serve the people. They no longer even uphold the law.Just throw their weight around, like a little privately sponsored army

These sounded like pretty generalised statements to me. I think you'll find most people in Liverpool, which is covered by Merseyside Police, do not agree with you.

Ninkanink · 02/03/2021 15:02

@Justhadathought

They have made these ‘mistakes’ often enough now and they need to seriously train their thugs better, or be made to disband the whole thing

Merseyside police are not " thugs". they do a good job in often very difficult circumstances. And next time you request, or require their assistance i hope you remember that.

As for the banner on the police van; someone higher up apologised for that. It seems that many organisations are exposed by people lower down the chain, or in some social media office, going off on one and doing their own thing.

I’m not talking about all police officers! Which is why I qualified it to mean those officers who act like thugs/participate in language or behaviour that does the institution as a whole a huge disservice. I also wasn’t just talking about this isolated case in this particular police force - I’m discussing the police as an institution.

I have a huge amount of respect for the many officers who do the job well and I absolutely do understand that it’s a very demanding job.

That doesn’t mean I have to respect every officer, nor respect the actions of every force.

NecessaryScene1 · 02/03/2021 15:01

They have made these ‘mistakes’ often enough now

You could maybe buy "mistake" if it's one trainee who's been given the keys to the Twitter account and nobody's was keeping an eye on them. Even if the organisation knew what it should be doing, one person can fuck up.

This clearly involved numerous people to put together the posters, do the photo op and send the publicity.

That's not a "mistake" - that's evidence of a systematic failure, if you can get that many police together and not one of them manages to point out a fundamental error in law before hitting the "publish" button.

If that many police can get together and do this, then means that either a huge percentage of the police don't know the law, or they don't feel able to point out errors in law. Not sure which is scarier.

Justhadathought · 02/03/2021 14:59

Yes it was a horrible photo all right. Merseyside police are utter horrors anyway

In what way are Merseyside police horrors? I live in Liverpool, and I'm just not seeing this.

Original poster

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 02/03/2021 14:57

Ninkanink thoroughly agree with all your posts, and with yours Shane. I just had such a visceral reaction to this.

That stance of the officer (inspector?) with the big stick as well. Looks like a pose calculated to intimidate.

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