Muslim women and trans policies in the workplace

OP I have a Muslim colleague (we're a multi-agency service ans she sits in local government.) She contacted the Muslim Council for support last autumn about toilets and washing facilities.
They sounded really supportive at the time.
I asked her this morning if she could signpost where to go within the organisation for help. She said the Muslim Council is supportive and engages well with Muslims facing workplaces issues, but her employer reported her they don't engage with the Muslim Council in line with central government. It sounded nuts so I googled it this afternoon:
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/22/muslim-council-says-uk-ministers-refusal-to-cooperate-has-had-tragic-consequences

And she's absolutely right. The government doesn't engage with the Muslim Council and this thinking seems to have trickled through government structure, all the way to government employers.

I can’t believe this is real, and that people just accept it (not talking about the OP or anyone on this thread obviously, just society in general accepting this as fact/ a way of life)

I have nothing intelligent to say really. It just doesn’t make any sense at all, and I feel like I am living in 1984.

Keep us posted OP! Good luck!

@TroubledBetty you sound like a formidable woman, taking some really smart actions. I hope you also find lots of support from people in your real life, of course it must be really stressful and scary so take care of yourself, and keep us updated and let us know if we can help.

OP if you need funds I would support you. I imagine though if you talk to your Muslim male friends & family they will be horrified at the thought of you being denied a single sex bathroom. Its' simply not acceptable. As others have said-mixed sex toilets 'as well' as single sex can accommodate everyone. It really is the only acceptable way forward.

I've just received an email from 38Degrees asking me to sign a petition against the government taking action on the toilet issue, as according to 38Degrees trans people are "terrified" to go to the toilet. You can imagine the rest - well, it was probably even worse than you're imagining. I had to unsubscribe from them.

Also wishing you good luck OP.
I noticed that Baroness Uddin had some very strong opinions about the removal of women's sex based language and rights in her speech in the House of Lords earlier today:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4176497-History-in-the-making-Watch-Parliament-Live-at-2-30pm

Good luck OP! Come back and let us know how it's going!

Also jumping on to wish you all the best and send your strength. Good luck op

This makes me furious. Also Muslim men will not be able to use their loos if transmen are sashaying around.

Others are more knowledge have replied better but just wanted to be another voice backing you

Your post really moved me, OP. The sisterliness of you helping each other adjust your veils is beautiful, and as others have said it's that same spirit of sisterliness and wish for privacy and dignity that women of all cultures can share. Surely anyone who has been in a ladies' loo (or had to endure a unisex one) would know this. I can't believe these unisex policies are being streamrolled out without any consideration. I will very gladly donate to any legal action or campaign about this.

Also worth checking:

Will men be equally excluded from their facilities? Or is this a disadvantage only borne by women? ie directly discriminatory on grounds of sex?

As evidenced on this thread, it is important to keep bluntly taking this down to the key point.

To enable trans people to take their preferred choice of facility

some women are being bounced from access to any facility. As with the women who have lost access to women-only swims.

They need to justify: what will happen to those employees who are excluded from any provision by making all provisions inclusive to another group?

How is this effective inclusion?

They have taken advice from a highly biased political lobby who have notoriously misrepresented the law. What balance have they sought from Muslim/Jewish/Jehovah's Witness/Traveller groups and lobbies who may have women unable to access mixed sex provisions? What women's political lobby groups to check their Equality duty for sex? What disability lobby, particularly regarding women with Autism who also often mention being unable to access mixed sex provisions? If not, how do they justify their political bias that is discriminatory against other affected groups?

And what guidance are they following that confirms that discrimination and exclusion of some women is a justifiable outcome of providing choice and affirmation for gender identity? Are there really no other, fairer, ways to meet needs that would include all?

You’re in good company op - the good women of the Home Office weren’t consulted about ‘gender neutral’ (mixed sex) facilities either. They are not happy about it!!

Women working in the Home Office are having to visit other departments to use the lavatory because so many of the building’s facilities are unisex.

Many women said that they felt uncomfortable using mixed-sex lavatories. Long queues built up outside the remaining ladies’ toilets when most people were back in the office.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c187f3a6-7087-11eb-811f-f64a7b4cb430?shareToken=14c1fafddbd64e4daf8155d12767b593

Hi OP, I don’t have anything to add on the toilets side of things and hope to hear that you have success.
I just wanted to touch on the part where you say “I know that many feminists don't approve of the wearing of veils” to say that I believe women, and men, should be free to wear whatever they like, veils etc included, what I don’t agree with is when women are forced to wear them against their will (and I guess the teaching behind the thinking that women should wear them) I also don’t agree with countries banning the wearing of them, I feel it puts those women who are forced to wear them in an even harder position as well as not allowing those who want to wear them, to wear them, I think those countries should be focusing on the coercion behind the wearing, not the actual wearing and it also reminds me of the times when it was illegal for women to wear trousers.
Sorry if this is a bit of a derail!

You raise a very interesting point OP. I’m not Muslim myself, but have a couple of friends who are and they’ve shared some really insightful information regarding their culture/religion etc.... very interesting and lovely ladies.

I can absolutely see why this would be an issue for you and you Muslim colleagues OP. I’ve no advice as it’s not something I know much about, but I hope your voices are heard 🙏

It’s quite frustrating to see people parrot ‘but single sex provision must be a proportional means of achieving a legitimate aim...and women’s objections don’t qualify’.
I’m reminded of a comment made by a GC academic (I can’t remember who) who pointed out that “Parliament has already done the heavy lifting for us” because the exceptions in EA2010 clearly state that a facility used by more than two people can be offered as single sex, if a person reasonably objects to a member of the opposite sex being there. Hygiene facilities fit this criteria.
I’ve included the relevant part of EA 2010. Section 29 refers to service provision.
What I’m not sure is whether a private company, providing hygiene facilities for employees (not the general public), is considered a service provider.

re comments about Leigh Day. The equal pay cases at super markets etc., have been in the news.

And as I pointed out in their statement on their web site they refer to sex as a protected characteristic.

But ... have just seen they work with Fawcett so now I have my doubts! (joke)

So on the basis that they do no win no fee cases based on sex discrimination it is idiotic not to contact them if it goes as far as a legal action. Dont forget not all trans women argue that trans women are women.

But if anyone has evidence that as a law firm they have refused to help a woman or group of women fight a case on the basis of sex discrimination because they have been told it would be transphobic to do so, please do share the information. At the moment they have a lot of publicity and reputation for being the firm that will take on equality issues on the basis of sex. So if in fact they aren't preparted to do so this should be put in the public domain, properly evidenced of course.

Signs on the doors...

I imagine that most women in your workplace will not want this, so worth listening out for muttering ...working together means numbers which may mean more attention. You could also change the on the doors back to original signs....

Agree with contacting Muslim Council/Women's Network. Also as it's a large international employee do they have employee resource groups in place? They may have an internal Women or Muslim Network you could contact too

Are you on twitter OP? Audrey Ludwig (@AudreySuffolk) is very good on discussions of conflicts of rights under the Equality Act. I don't know if the nature of the organisation she works for or your location would preclude her from actually taking you on as a client, but she may be able to give you some pointers on next steps and/or legal support in your area.