Indigo Gender Clinic Manchester

I think the main point for me is that any service should have an equal balance of what happens down the route to transitioning, but also what is possible for those wishing to detransition.

And of course the third way, which many of us remember from back in 70s, that it is possible to be gender non conforming ("gender benders") and live an okay life.

stumbledin its certainly true the actual bodies with legal responsibility in these areas don’t seem to be doing their actual duty to look after people carefully and fairly..
I’m surprised that providing these kinds of W services in the community is something that NHS commissioners would do contemplate given the seriousness of the ‘treatments’ and the questions around them. I wondered if maybe it’s significantly cheaper to provide services this way? If so, will commissioners openly publish evaluations of providing services this way vs the standard GIDs model.. and Is there an impact assessment needed to start a new delivery model like this, I wonder?

ChattyLion - many good points. Have only had a chance to skim read. What we really need is for every city and every town to have a mumsnet scrutiny panel to make sure that authorities dont just follow the woke Stonewall agenda.

I had thought that too StumbledIn, that it was a staging post en route to traditional GIDs but their blurb says otherwise- ‘Indigo Gender Service will provide the services offered by the seven existing gender identity clinics, but in a non-specialised and primary care setting.’

lgbt.foundation/news/gtd-healthcare-and-lgbt-foundation-to-launch-new-adult-trans-health-service-in-greater-manchester/389

So it sounds like it will have the same powers as the others- of patient diagnosis and of surgical referral say, but in a specifically ‘affirmative’ environment, including with service delivery by staff who have themselves transitioned, which in this context in terms of the clinician-patient relationship could be significant.

They also provide no explicit welcome or services for detransitioning or detransitioned people, which I am afraid in the current climate could give the unfortunate impression of a politicised service provision, especially considering it is a very newly-developed service.
(everyone working in this area, will know detransitioned people exist and will have specific needs to be met. With these service providers’ apparent expertise in the needs of the trans community, and very recent direct involvement of the community in shaping the service, how did this not come up?)

All medical services should allow for patient refusal of any offered treatment and should offer full information-giving as a fundamental basis of patient consent to treatment. We should be confident that this is a key tenet for the service provision here also.

But I’m afraid that a service which promotes itself as ‘affirmative’ is not going to give the same objective impression, of facilitating the basics of consent, in the same way as a service which for example also explicitly highlighted offering ‘watch and wait’ approaches as an option and recognised detransitioning people to the extent of either supporting them too or explicitly saying they will signpost them on to dedicated support elsewhere.

Nor do they mention long term follow up or offering research participation in their blurb. Which isn’t to say they might not be doing it, we can’t know, but you would hope so. I think it’s also interesting that they refer to patients of their medical services only as ‘people’ in the blurb above. Very established medical services do sometimes talk of ‘service users’ or ‘clients’ or just eg ‘young people’, ‘women’ or ‘men’, where safety and efficacy is not a question beyond the normal basics of good medical practice and where they want to create a non- medicalised kind of atmosphere. That can be the case in some areas of medicine to improve community participation where for example the condition or service itself is stigmatised.

But in this context it feels off-key when the treatments have a poor evidence base and there’s very poor understanding of which patients the treatments will be right for long term. It feels inappropriate give a ‘post-medicalised’ sort of impression, when the basic medical evidence work still hasn’t been robustly done.

Maybe all this is available within Indigo as a part of their good clinical practice, I have no idea, but to call the service ‘affirmative’ is really at basic service ethos level not a good look in a specialist service. It’s not like the patients they will see there, will have already had objective counselling somewhere else first, as part of the deal.
I want a relationship with my doctor that’s positive and welcoming as much as anyone else does but I need to know they are going to be as objective as possible in what they recommend to me when I explain whatever it is that is bothering me.

I think, as was discussed on the earlier thread, this is not an actual medical practice clinic.

This is about being a support network to those already referred (by ?) and are on a waiting list to be seen.

I think they worry is, is that it seems to almost thinks its role is to enforce someone going through, ie you are assigned a "navigator" to support you. But if the navigotor is basically just there to affirm, that isn't really support - its like making sure cult members dont lose the faith!

Because if you're a non binary female you need a mastectomy

I never quite understand this.

It seems to me that being a ‘non-binary’ female requires a very binary move to looking/presenting as a default male.

It’s what Simone de Beauvoir and many many other feminists have said: the default for being human is male and masculine.

I can't reconcile a "holistic" approach with prescription of pharmacological medicines and major surgery.

Pups, eh?

hoodathunkit I only know about the Service and it’s manager from what is readily available to read on their public Twitter accounts. I have no knowledge of, nor seen any indication of any ‘cult’ connection. Just seems like a service run by trans people for trans people.

The person in charge is Meg Amber Lightheart who describes themselves as a ‘leadership development specialist’ with several years experience of motivational speaking, workshops etc. Seems very passionate about running a holistic service - lots of focus on serving it’s diverse, local community. I imagine the service has been welcomed by many in Manchester’s LGBT+ community and I’m sure it’s profile will rise over the coming months as Meg Lightheart seems keen to reach out.

Is this the same service that we saw coming in this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3549494-Plans-for-radical-trans-health-service-model-to-be-rolled-out-across-England

"Indigo"? Well, yes, that makes sense.

The last incarnation of the "my child is special not disturbed" was the Indigo child cult 🤨

Because if you're a non binary female you need a mastectomy

Can you explain please?

Surely if you’re non-binary you don’t identify as male or female, so why would that need a double mastectomy? Won’t that push someone toward the male binary?

I agree with pp about “indigo”, i’ve only ever heard it used to describe children thought to have some sort of special powers.

The Manager of Indigo comes from a non-clinical background - their expertise seems to lie in offering workshops around empowerment and life-coaching. They have written a motivational book and offer leadership seminars for business leaders (glowing reviews from some high-powered female managers) I think there’s a big emphasis at Indigo on catering for diverse communities in terms of gender, ethnicity, sexuality. They themselves are a recently transitioned trans woman who affectionately refers (on Twitter) to their two partners in their polyamorous relationship as ‘pups’ and/or her ‘pack’. It feels like they’re trying to create a warm, family-like vibe to the service - it’s all couched in very gentle, non-medical, nurturing language.

I wonder whether you could please message me with more information about this person, the service manager

I have extremely serious concerns about some new age cult affiliated people offering services to trans youth in Manchester and I want to check as to whether they are the same people or connected to them.

The use of the word "Indigo" is a red flag for me as it is used in new age cults to define "special" / "psychic" people, usually on the autistic specrum or otherwise neuro-atypical.

Some extremely dangerous cults use the concept of indigo children to scam parents of autistic kids and to exploit vulnerable adults on the spectrum and to exploit people with serious mental illnesses.

Just because someone promotes or is involved in the Indigo / Indigo Children movement does not of course mean that they are part of a cult or a bad person. Many well meaning vulnerable people get involved.

Also just because the service it called Indigo it does not neccessarily indicate a cultic involvement.

I just have some concerns as to whether or not this relates to my own research

I am stressed and busy so no rush, but this could be important - thanks

Curious if any female person 17 years or older who wants one could get a hysterectomy here? Does claiming to be gender free qualify you?

Given that some people are waiting up to 4 years to get an appointment at a gender clinic, I think this is excellent news.

The Manager of Indigo comes from a non-clinical background - their expertise seems to lie in offering workshops around empowerment and life-coaching. They have written a motivational book and offer leadership seminars for business leaders (glowing reviews from some high-powered female managers) I think there’s a big emphasis at Indigo on catering for diverse communities in terms of gender, ethnicity, sexuality. They themselves are a recently transitioned trans woman who affectionately refers (on Twitter) to their two partners in their polyamorous relationship as ‘pups’ and/or her ‘pack’. It feels like they’re trying to create a warm, family-like vibe to the service - it’s all couched in very gentle, non-medical, nurturing language.

I did some stupid things at 18 and made some disastrous decisions, based on typical teenaged reasons like enthusiasm, naive idealism, uncritically trusting people I admired, etc. Of course I thought I was right at the time.

I am assuming that post Covid, a major re-assessment of all parts of government will need to take place. The situation is dire and is now much much worse than after 1 lockdown. Trans has been argued as non-medical, in fact I think they are emphatic and that being the case, it will be very difficult for them to then argue that medical intervention is necessary, therefore tax payers might have a bit of an issue funding this rather than supporting those in poverty

I believe many women who claim they are non-binary also take testosterone, albeit at lower doses than women who claim they are men.

Terrifying that someone like Keira might attend at 17, be given cross-sex hormones, then be referred directly for mastectomy after a year.

“Trans-led” seems well intentioned, but perhaps not a good idea, based on how much of this medicine is already dominated by those who have transitioned successfully and are therefore biased. I can understand help for women being led by women, or help for homosexuals being led by other homosexuals because of shared experience. But this is medical care directly related to a mental health problem and requires someone who is wholly rational to assess potential harms.

I hope I’m wrong and it is evidence based, high quality health care, packaged so as to avoid alarm to young people who might be suffering from mental health problems, but on the face of it, it sounds worryingly misguided.

Then LGBT foundation, who are involved in this service talk about ‘trans adults’ with ‘gender incongruence’. So they use a non-medicalised term unlike ‘dysphoria’, and promote Indigo as an ‘affirmative’ service, yet it also says in their FAQS they will be able to offer referral for top surgery. To a client group aged 17+.

lgbt.foundation/news/gtd-healthcare-and-lgbt-foundation-to-launch-new-adult-trans-health-service-in-greater-manchester/389

We are proud to announce that Indigo Gender Service, a new NHS adult gender service pilot, will be launching in Greater Manchester later this year. Indigo Gender Service will provide the services offered by the seven existing gender identity clinics, but in a non-specialised and primary care setting.

Indigo Gender Service is a partnership between gtd healthcare, a not-for-profit organisation with an established presence of primary care and urgent care services in the north-west, and LGBT Foundation, a national charity delivering services, advice and information for lesbian, gay, bisexual and trans communities.

We know that trans and non-binary people are the experts of their own experience, and that is why this service has been developed by and for trans communities. Our services are trans led, with trans and non-binary people guiding and feeding into them at all levels.
...
Our service will offer trans and non-binary people different ways to access support services, including assessment and diagnosis for gender incongruence. This includes holistic assessments of an individual’s needs and will offer referrals and signposting to other services.

Our support is person centred – we recognise that there are as many ways to be trans and non-binary as there are trans and non-binary people in the world and we tailor our support to meet each person’s individual needs. A team of care navigators with lived experience will work with service users to help them to get the most out of the service and enable them to connect with local organisations across Greater Manchester.
...
We want to make sure that care is safe, inclusive and affirmative. We will do this by supporting trans and non-binary people to be well informed about their choices by sharing knowledge, explaining options, promoting health, and trusting people to make decisions that are right for them.

We’re taking a multidisciplinary approach to care, bringing together knowledge and expertise from different fields and backgrounds to ensure our service delivers the highest quality care to trans communities. Indigo Gender Service will be staffed by an experienced primary care team from the Greater Manchester healthcare system and will also receive clinical support from the gender identity clinic at Nottinghamshire Healthcare NHS Foundation Trust.

Indigo Gender Service is planned to open later this year. The service will initially focus on supporting people who are on a waiting list for a gender identity clinic appointment, are already registered with a GP in Greater Manchester and are eligible for NHS treatment.

Then in the FAQS:

Can I obtain top surgery through Indigo?

When the service first launches, Indigo will be able to refer you to our linked GIC in Nottingham for an assessment for top surgery. After one year, we will be able to refer you for top surgery directly.

As they say they are targeting people awaiting a GIDs appointment and who have dysphoria, I do hope there is a strong non-directive ethos within their service aimed at this vulnerable group

www.gmcvo.org.uk/news/indigo-gender-service-–-new-nhs-adult-gender-dysphoria-service-greater-manchester