School Transgender policies

MiladyRenata, I'd recommend reading The Gendered Brain by Gina Rippon. I actually find it quite insulting now when people talk about "female brains". The only thing that makes my brain female is the fact that it is comprised of XX chromosomes and part of a female body.

Can we start by, maybe, not deciding that 50% of our kids must be:
Forced to play contact sports
Made to wear their hair short
Made to wear ties
Called by their surnames instead of their first names
Beaten up by the lads from the local comprehensive because they happen to be wearing the uniform of the local grammar school.
Generally bullied all the time.
because of their chromosomes? Just a thought.

I think you'll find that that everyone on this board agrees that gendered stereotypes have a negative effect on men and boys too. Honestly though, do you think it's appropriate to come on a feminist board and suggest that we start with sorting out the negative impacts of gender stereotypes on boys? You know that feminism is about centring women and girls right?

All the schools in Cornwall use a company called Jigsaw. Lots of other counties use it too. At Primary level there is one lesson on Transgenderism, you can download lesson outlines. You can spot the deliberate mistake on this one which may or may not show where the focus lies. Jigsaw have a big Twitter presence if anyone wants to look them up .

In an effort to get this thread back on track, I did a web search for the phrase “the way a person’s body appears, sometimes wrongly, to indicate their gender” and one of the top hits was this thread from 2017 about guidance from an NHS organisation in Scotland.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3101028-To-think-this-breath-takingly-ill-thought-out-regressive-sexist-nonsense-and-is-a-real-danger-to-children-with-special-needs

It was also in this thread from 2018, where it was quoted from the Cornwall guidance for schools (which I think is one of the council's which has refused to withdraw its trans guidance).

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3344556-Let-s-talk-about-how-safeguarding-is-being-disregarded?login=complete

It also appears in a disturbing number of school transgender policies.

The definition of gender in these policies is "the way that a person feels about themselves in relation to their physical and mental self; the basis of their identifying as male, or female, or neither, or either, both." Which doesn't make much sense either.

I'm not sure of the etymology of that phrase MiladyRenata, but I assume it's to do with the stereotypical idea of men being strong and brave. Gender stereotyping is something which feminists fight against, unlike the trans lobby which likes to reinforce it.

So if it's not your biological body, what is a woman?

@Oldcrone

Explain the chromosomal basis of the phrase "man up"

It's only a "disorder" if society expects XY people to be men and XX people to be women.

But people with XY chromosomes are men (or boys) and people with XX chromosomes are women (or girls). It's biology. It's nothing to do with society.

@Oldcrone

Very good question (and one I have pondered for many years).

I think that gender is a bit like sexual orientation. It's set up a certain way in the brain, and happens to correlate with one's physical biology most, but not all, of the time.

So sometimes you get a mismatch, which we call "gender dysphoria". It's only a "disorder" if society expects XY people to be men and XX people to be women. Much like we used to think same sex attraction was a disorder but now, thankfully, we don't.

Hope that helps a bit.

Literally nobody here is saying they think it's okay that boys are violent towards one another.

Back to my earlier points, what is it about XY chromosomes that mean it's OK if you get beaten up at school because boys will be boys?

Like most women, I personally don't want to play rugby with anyone! Please see my post just a few slots above.

As it happens, I think that safety considerations can be a valid reason for trans women not playing contact sports with other women. Even if they wanted to!

Trans women have female brains.

How is a female brain different from a male brain? And how does a female brain end up in a male body?

Female brains? Yeah right. Or you could just be a male that thinks like you do.

@MiladyRenata okay I'll bite. Should you be allowed to play rugby against the type of women who are born with female typical bodies?

@ClarenceBoddicker

OK, apologies to others if this is off topic.

No, you can't change sex. That's the problem. It's hard coded in the brain. Trans women have female brains. And, of course, male typical bodies.

Four decades of trying to live as "male" taught me that it can't be done if you have a female brain. I can't change that brain - if somehow I could it would make me a different person which of course I don't want.

Four decades at war with myself, and then realising that I'm a woman.

It's not fun, it's not a whim and it's not a choice. Trans women are women.

Why is the political trans movement given any more credibility than flat earthers or David Icke or Scientologists etc etc etc. I added the political bit as know there are many trans people who aren’t nutters and want a gentle life and are pissed off being thrown into this. They would say they suffer from dysmorphia but never claim to be a ‘real’ woman / man as a biological one

Flat earthers get all kinds of shit. Dumb. Thick. Deranged. At odds with reality (that earth is a sphere). But when trans crazies are at odds with reality they’re not only given sympathy but sane people actually argue their case

I’m probably with the majority on here but at least it one point it was about ‘gender’ rather than sex even if they traditionally were the same thing. Actually just looked up gender now in the dictionary online and it’s been nobbled! But sex surely can not be changed as a definition. It’s scientific facts and denying it is like believing in creationism or being a flat earthier who the liberal types usually like to make fun of

Can we start by, maybe, not deciding that 50% of our kids must be:

Forced to play contact sports
Made to wear their hair short
Made to wear ties
Called by their surnames instead of their first names
Beaten up by the lads from the local comprehensive because they happen to be wearing the uniform of the local grammar school.
Generally bullied all the time.

because of their chromosomes? Just a thought.

It’s not very scientific. What do they teach in biology these days? This is what pisses me off. I realise there is a political dynamic and we’re in the middle of a culture war. If someone chooses to disagree with someone else then fine but can we stick to facts?

I just found one that defined sex as

“the way a person’s body appears, sometimes wrongly, to indicate their gender”.

Oh honestly

This is getting more and more ridiculous by the day now.

Yes, i think they're making it easy for the argument to be knocked down. If you start saying sex isn't gender, well what is gender other than stereotypes? And DfE guidance says no stereotypes.

Yes that is weird and not what sex means.

It also seems dangerously close to the "wrong body" narrative that is now banned in schools.

While teachers should not suggest to a child that their non-compliance with gender stereotypes means that either their personality or their body is wrong and in need of changing.

www.gov.uk/guidance/plan-your-relationships-sex-and-health-curriculum#ensuring-content-is-appropriate

Sorry. Not quick enough. (Or knowledgeable ) Thanks persistentwoman.