Apparently trans people don't have an advantage playing sports.

Imagine using the fact women go through biological changes during menopause as a defence for allowing women and girls to be put at risk by people competing against them with the effects of male puberty on their side. Fucking hell!

"The only place transmen could potentially compete with men is in the sports with a very extreme (low) weight class (eg 50kg or 55kg), because then the men don't have the benefits of lots more strength and size."

I would like to see any woman cyclist, any weight, take on 58kg Nairo Quintana.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nairo_Quintana

You certainly can't mention biology on a website meant for women to discuss women's issues.
There is no 'basic truth' anymore, just the 'truth' you have to accept, or be labelled as some kind of bigot.

Yup. Two threads went pfft yesterday (one of them completely without trace) for discussing the fact that it was biologically impossible for people with male reproductive biology to suffer from medical conditions specific to female reproductive biology. Apparently we are not allowed to talk about this any more.

The only place transmen could potentially compete with men is in the sports with a very extreme (low) weight class (eg 50kg or 55kg), because then the men don't have the benefits of lots more strength and size

As a young teen, I used to ride out the horses at a relative's racing yard. I doubt anyone weighed much more than 8 stone, but the "Lads" were still stronger than the "Lasses", because they were male.

Just reading the abstract of the paper, OP, why do the Conclusions not reflect anything reported in the Results?

The only place transmen could potentially compete with men is in the sports with a very extreme (low) weight class (eg 50kg or 55kg), because then the men don't have the benefits of lots more strength and size.

And even there due to differences in types of muscles (eg fast twitch etc), and lengths of bones etc, there will be a male puberty advantage.

I can't help thinking that a person who was put on puberty blockers as a child, cross-sex hormones as a teenager and then subject to fairly extensive surgery would be fairly unlikely to be in top physical shape. I could be wrong, but I can't imagine that this takes anything but a negative toll on a person's physical health. Is it likely that such a person would even be able to compete at the top level?

Why are there so many men who just cant stand the word no?

"Women's sport is about celebrating extraordinary women, not mediocre men".

Dont Transmen risk osteoporosis with their hormones ?

As will any child taking blockers?

Not going to create many athletes like that.

When you have schoolboy soccer teams beating womens national teams, that's all you need to know.
If there are no advantages where are all the transmen beating the normal men?

Is there a limit on how much testosterone a trans man can take and still compete?

Or is the level which a trans man would reach always lower than a man?

Yes, it's ways lower, in that they won't have the same advantages as the equivalent man.

This is because once a woman has been through female puberty, the effects that testosterone can have will be limited - you're packing muscle on to a female frame, with female-sized heart and lungs, female bone density, structure, etc.

It's why the East German women could beat all other women, but not the men.

The only place transmen could potentially compete with men is in the sports with a very extreme (low) weight class (eg 50kg or 55kg), because then the men don't have the benefits of lots more strength and size.

web.law.duke.edu/sports/sex-sport/comparative-athletic-performance/

Most average high school boys can beat elite women athletes. It's just stupid to pretend that gender identity or hormones completely wipes out physical differences

99% of the population knows this is BS. Human anatomy and physiology is something which can be easily measured. As Cara pointed out above, anyone can cherry-pick references that suits their agenda, it doesn't mean that they are correct.
Why waste your time on Facebook? It's a horrible platform. I quit social media a long time ago and am so much happier for it.

World Rugby's Transgender Guidelines and Summary are worth a read, explaining why It's not possible to balance inclusion, safety and fairness; to quote Ross Tucker All the evidence, even if incomplete, strongly suggests that advantages are retained with welfare & performance implications. Therefore players must compete in sex category

Pdfs downloadable here: playerwelfare.worldrugby.org/gender

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4046310-World-Rugby-Guidelines-out

Inexplicably, English Rugby has taken a different decision and there is a thread about that too.

This stuff baffles me tbh.

Everyone in the world knows the differences between male and female. Everyone. All mammals do fgs.

Why are so many people working so hard to deny really basic truths?

DH has low testosterone. He could compete as a woman according to the rules.

He's over 6 foot, built like a brick shithouse, used to play rugby, and can bench press 130kg without going to the gym much or anything.

It's silly.

Or is the level which a trans man would reach always lower than a man?

I’m sure over all, transmen don't.

And yet any other women taking testosterone are banned from professional sport - why might that be if it has no effect?

I see their bs paper and raise them this. From one of the top medical universities in Europe.

www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/782557v1

I believe that there will soon be studies done into the advantages of any one born male regardless of age. It seems that some of the advantages such as muscle type etc are evident even in small children.

It will be an interesting study to read.

As I said before, if there's no advantage why aren't there loads of transmen competing at higher levels in men's sports?

Bless their cotton socks.

Moving onto comparisons with menopause?! Fuck off.

Skeletons and gait in men and women are completely different. Men have slightly longer legs and arms than women in relation to body length.

I boxed in the forces.

We did sparring with the men to toughen us up. They hated it as even the lower weight men could hit harder than we could.

No advantage haha funny if it wasn't such a real life issue these days.

Of all the literature in this review only one study appears to be relevant and that concluded that transgender women had significantly increased muscle mass 1 year post transition compared to the control group of transgender men pre transition. So against their conclusion. It also stated that transgender women’s hormone levels 1 year post cross sex hormone treatment were post castration level but did not compare it to natal women’s levels.

The rest of the literati appears to be predominantly research on transgender individuals’ participation in sport and is irrelevant to any questions related to fairness. Their conclusion in no way reflects the actual discussion in the article or the reviewed literature. One might even wonder if the authors were biased in some way.