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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Baroness Nicholson on twitter

580 replies

Winesalot · 01/05/2020 23:27

I have been lurking on twitter lately and noticed Baroness Nicholson has been very active recently. Amongst her tweets are quite a few gems - letters to Liz Truss, tweets asking for evidence about Stonewall’s involvement CPS guidance just to name two.

This tweet I found very encouraging too.

It is imperative to restore the rights of women.I foresee a single issue, cluster approach;we make a new Women’s Rights movement lasting one year,solely to rescue womanhood from its destruction through today’s legal and social denial of our existence.Emma,BNoW

She has today written to Liz Truss again but this time with her concerns about the gross misinterpretation of the ECHR in the trans toolkits used in schools and recommends that such toolkits are removed from use now. Such support is great news.

twitter.com/baroness_nichol/status/1256326753850556418?s=21

I will try to post the letter for those not on twitter.

I look forward to seeing what what happens next.

OP posts:
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TyroSaysMeow · 04/05/2020 22:31

I'm half a sentence into that thread and already pissed off.

In the broadest use of the term, a transgender person crosses the conventional boundaries of gender

PfC are defining me as transgender. They're assigning a gender to me. Sound the transphobia klaxon! And then this:

"Seeking respect and equality for ALL trans people"[2]. People who identify as transsexual are a small part of this spectrum

What they're doing here, in using the label "trans" to cover anyone and everyone who doesn't comfortably occupy a traditional gender role, is so horribly sexist I'm struggling to find words for it.

Personally, I don't find being othered in this way particularly respectful; quite the contrary, in fact.

R0 you know if you keep linking these things my head's going to explode, right? Which admittedly could be informative but will also be messy.

R0wantrees · 04/05/2020 22:19

Wtf are these people on?

GIRES annual reports & AGM minutes are worth reading.
Also important to be aware of the links between Beaumont Society, Press For Change & GIRES

Anlaf posted Sun 24-Feb-19 (page 4 thread below)

"Now who knew that GIRES was set up as the charitable arm of Press for Change? I did not.

The Gender Identity Research and Education Society

Press for Change activists Bernard Reed and Yvonne Wingfield have been hard at work setting up a charity, which is now going for registration with the Charity Commission.

The idea is to allow the charity to take on - and expand - the current work of Press for Change in the areas of publication of information, education and training, research and support for students. PFC itself cannot be a charity, being of its nature political, but it makes sense to siphon off some of our activities into a charity, especially as the range of our activities continues to expand.

From the 1997 newsletter
<a class="break-all" href="//web.archive.org/web/20000606005635/www.pfc.org.uk/newsltr/nwslet09.htm#sw-trains" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20000606005635/www.pfc.org.uk/newsltr/nwslet09.htm#sw-trains

(Said this before but PfC really were impressively well organised - logging friendly MPs, asking supporters to have face to face meetings with their own MPs, and using formal political structures like a charity and parliamentary forum.)"

see important thread for further history including why Press For Change and GIRES parted ways in 2000.
As pencilsinspace evidences this was, "in large part because of the way GIRES treated intersex people and support groups"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007?pg=4

TyroSaysMeow · 04/05/2020 22:03

Gender variance is an atypical development in the relationship between the gender identity and the visible sex of an individual.

'Transgressing the boundaries of your stereotype-box isn't normal.'

They can fuck right off with that one.

fitting into the social categories: boy/man or girl/woman. These social categories generate expectations of gender roles

Aaaaaaand we're back in the incoherent nonsense. Can they honestly not see it?

Boy and girl are not social categories! They're biological sex categories that generate expectations of gender roles!

Wtf are these people on?

R0wantrees · 04/05/2020 21:44

I'm willing to bet that there is zero evidence that the coronavirus asks you about your gender identity before it infects you.

The evidence may be hard to establish as NHS & Covid symptom tracker application seem unable to collect clear data on both sex & gender identity.

GIRES have been advising/influencing NHS since at least 2014
apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends37/0001068137_AC_20141231_E_C.PDF

GIRES 'research'
'Gender Variance (Dysphoria)'
2014-09-01
GIRES supports the right of individuals to live according to their true gender identity, rather than one imposed upon them at birth. (continues)

Gender variance is an atypical development in the relationship between the gender identity and the visible sex of an individual. In order to understand this atypical development, it is necessary, firstly, to understand something of the typical development of these elements of our make-up. Many in the scientific and medical professions recognise the terms ‘gender’ and ‘sex’ as having distinct meanings. ‘Gender identity’ describes the psychological recognition of oneself, as well as the wish to be regarded by others, as fitting into the social categories: boy/man or girl/woman. These social categories generate expectations of gender roles, that is, how we are expected to behave in society. ‘Sex’, on the other hand, is usually understood to represent the physical differentiation as male or female, indicated by the external appearance of the genitalia and the presence of gonads (testes in a boy/ovaries in a girl) which will determine reproductive function, and differences in brain structure and function. (continues)
www.gires.org.uk/gender-variance-dysphoria/

TyroSaysMeow · 04/05/2020 21:34

Titania McGrath had a lovely pie chart, lbd. It affects males and females so enbies are all immune, so I guess they can all go back to work while the rest of us keep shielding.

littlbrowndog · 04/05/2020 21:29

What ar3 the genders that might be more affected by Coronavirus.

Jeez this is the government officially speaking 🤷‍♀️

R0wantrees · 04/05/2020 21:26

Do they explain why they think this is of any importance whatsoever? Or why children should be sent off for medical treatment for being a girl who identifies with masculinity or a boy who identifies with femininity?

Only that parents in UK armed forces should "follow their child’s lead" in this matter.

RedDogsBeg · 04/05/2020 21:25

Transgender means many things to many people. Don’t assume that your child will want to transition, wear a certain type of clothing, or change their hobbies. Listen to your child about what being transgender means to them, and know that there’s no right way to be transgender.

This is just so nonsensical I don't know where to start.

TyroSaysMeow · 04/05/2020 21:23

a disproportionate impact on some ethnic groups, as well as certain genders

I'm willing to bet that there is zero evidence that the coronavirus asks you about your gender identity before it infects you.

Also willing to bet that male doctors who identify as women aren't having problems with ill-fitting PPE. I don't see any transwomen being expected to take care of elderly parents and homeschool their kids while also putting in a full day's work, either.

TyroSaysMeow · 04/05/2020 21:20

I do hope they explain it somewhere, OldCrone. I'd like to see how they justify their sexism.

R0wantrees · 04/05/2020 21:18

The Department of Health & Social Care "support[s] ministers in leading the nation’s health and social care to help people live more independent, healthier lives for longer."

"There is emerging evidence to suggest that #coronavirus may be having a disproportionate impact on some ethnic groups, as well as certain genders.

We're launching a review into the factors impacting health outcomes to address health inequalities."

certain genders? Hmm

twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1257332511912460290

STILLTish Twitter thread analysing CPD for NHS staff.

"This is Continued Professional Development for NHS staff. It’s approved training for Doctors, Nursing and other NHS staff. This is ideologically predicated and scientifically without merit. Module 1 of three. #CognitiveCapture .

In partnership with GIRES. The name ought to be familiar as they frequently appear on Hansard and are deeply embedded in the political class.

In this module you will learn about Gender Diversity and be re-educated about the “Gender Binary”. None of that nonsense about being a sexually dimorphic species. Just forget all that outdated biology and embrace the queering of facts." (continues)
twitter.com/STILLTish/status/1256620526149214208

Module 2 (Mermaids & Gendered Intelligence)
twitter.com/STILLTish/status/1257041444839346177

Baroness Nicholson on twitter
OldCrone · 04/05/2020 21:14

Gender is more complex, as it is a spectrum from masculine to feminine, and there are people that feel they fit in anywhere in between the two or with neither. Gender is about which set of characteristics you identify with the most, and can change easily

Do they explain why they think this is of any importance whatsoever? Or why children should be sent off for medical treatment for being a girl who identifies with masculinity or a boy who identifies with femininity?

TyroSaysMeow · 04/05/2020 21:11

If any other parents have any thought that their child might be transgender, ask for a referral to the Gender Identity clinic as soon as possible – a GP can make this referral!

'If you're worried your child may be displaying behaviours inappropriate for their sex, don't worry - the doctors can help!'

TyroSaysMeow · 04/05/2020 21:09

There's no such thing as a transgender child!

Transgendered children, yes. Who's doing the transgendering?

Gender and sex are not the same thing.

No shit.

Gender is about which set of characteristics you identify with the most, and can change easily

Ten out of ten for honestly, I suppose.

Listen to your child about what being transgender means to them, and know that there’s no right way to be transgender.

They are so close to getting it.

If there's no right way to be transgender then there's no right way to be cisgender either and the entire distinction is meaningless.

Said it before, will doubtless say it again at great length: the cis/trans binary is not real.

Never question the child as to whether what they are feeling may just be a phase.

Yes, because ensuring teenagers know that they're going through a period of great psychological flux and it'll settle down by their mid-twenties is just such terribly irresponsible parenting, isn't it?

Using preferred names and pronouns can go a
long way to make your child feel fully supported by the family

What, so we have to buy into stereotypes because it makes our kids feel better? Bollocks to it, I say.

R0wantrees · 04/05/2020 21:05

No published date shown.

Lordfrontpaw · 04/05/2020 21:02

That first paragraph ‘...more scarce...’ 😂😂😂 is it April 1st?

R0wantrees · 04/05/2020 20:53

And why the Navy think this is part of their remit is beyond me.

Published guide for parents by MOD LGBT+ Network, ShOUT

'Guide for Parents of LGBT+ Children'

(extract)
Transgender Children
Generally, resources for transgender children are even more scarce than for lesbian, gay and bisexual.
There are unique differences and steps you can take to ensure your transgender child feels as supported as possible

Learn About Gender
Gender and sex are not the same thing. Sex is generally defined as the binary characteristic assigned at birth – male or female. Gender is more complex, as it is a spectrum from masculine to feminine, and there are people that feel they fit in anywhere in between the two or with neither. Gender is about which set of characteristics you identify with the most, and can change easily

Follow Your Child’s Lead
Transgender means many things to many people. Don’t assume that your child will want to transition, wear a certain type of clothing, or change their hobbies. Listen to your child about what being transgender means to them, and know that there’s no right way to be transgender.

Use Your Child’s Preferred Name and Pronouns
It can take time to get used to calling your child by a different
name and using different gender pronouns, and it’s okay to
make mistakes. Using preferred names and pronouns can go a
long way to make your child feel fully supported by the family

Interview with Sergeant Major Mark Hill MBE
"Mark Hill is a Youth Engagement Officer within 4th Infantry Brigade in North Yorkshire. He and his wife have a transgender daughter, now
coming to the end of her 6-month assessment period at the Gender Identity clinic" (continues)

What advice would you give to others in the same situation?

If any other parents have any thought that their child might be transgender, ask for a referral to the Gender Identity clinic as soon as possible – a GP can make this referral!
Let your child know that you are there to help and support them and you love them regardless of how they identify.
Never question the child as to whether what they are feeling may just be a phase. They should always know that their feelings are valid whatever the outcome.
Support is out there but it is often difficult to find it – Mermaids UK, a charity for transgender children and teenagers, were very helpful and we had a lot of support from them." (continues)

Transgender-Specific
Resources
(signposts to:
Mermaids UK, Gendered Intelligence & NCH)

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/829870/GuideParentsLGBT_A5Booklet_for_gov.uk.pdf

Lordfrontpaw · 04/05/2020 20:33

Diversity - oh, do they accept sailors with disabilities then? Great!

TyroSaysMeow · 04/05/2020 20:28

That's infuriating, R0.

Diversity and inclusion my arse. What's inclusive about compelling women to submit to their shackles?

And why the Navy think this is part of their remit is beyond me.

R0wantrees · 04/05/2020 20:25

The Royal Navy ?

Secretary of State for Defence
Current role holder: The Rt Hon Ben Wallace MP

Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Minister for the Armed Forces) Current role holder: James Heappey MP

Sir Stephen Lovegrove became Permanent Secretary for the Ministry of Defence (MOD) in April 2016.

Baroness Nicholson on twitter
Lordfrontpaw · 04/05/2020 17:23

I’d love a midwife to come and explain how the guess the gender of a newborn. Toss a coin, one potato two potato, rock/paper/scissors, throw a dart at a dartboard, boy-girl-boy-girl pattern? Or are babies born with either a fake moustache or pink glittery fairy wings?

I’d really love to know.

TyroSaysMeow · 04/05/2020 17:15

People are not assigned a gender identity at birth. Midwives do not have sorting hats.

It's incoherent nonsense.

The midwife notes the sex of the baby. It's society that does the gendering.

I'm not done with "this cis nonsense" yet though. I'd like it noted and acknowledged that 'transwoman' is considered the socially-appropriate sex role for effeminate homosexual males. It is entirely consistent with their sex. Which means they're "cis".

R0wantrees · 04/05/2020 17:08

I haven't yet said, 'May the fourth be with you' today.
Grin

twitter.com/JackieDP/status/1257281649873768448

Baroness Nicholson on twitter
R0wantrees · 04/05/2020 17:00

Why is 'be yourself, ignore the strait jacket of gender stereotypes and you and your body are perfect as you are' so unacceptable?!

A good question for Women's & Equalities MPs as well as the Secretary of State for Education.

R0wantrees · 04/05/2020 16:58

the sexism shines through so clearly, doesn't it?

'Everyone is born suited to a particular sex role stereotype. Sometimes it takes a while to figure out which stereotype you occupy most comfortably. All stereotypes are valid!

Its a framework built on sexist (and abusive) foundations.

current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3896788-Important-series-of-articles-by-Dr-Em-Sexist-History-at-the-Heart-of-the-Science-on-Transsexualism-Part-I-Benjamin-Ihlenfeld-Money-Ehrhardt