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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sexism in education

60 replies

Z0rr0 · 29/04/2020 16:33

Looking for examples of issues where girls are disadvantaged in schools and/or schools have found ways to tackle this (or not).
It's for a thing I'm working on.
Intersectional views including issues of class, race, disability, sexuality are welcomed.
Topics include uniform, menstruation, access to subjects, P.E., physical & mental wellbeing, safeguarding, sexual harassment etc.
Also interested in any orgs tackling these things and any recent amendments to govt law / guidance besides Equalities Act and access to menstrual products.
Who is active in this area?
Thank you.

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Z0rr0 · 30/04/2020 12:37

@OhGodWhatTheHellNow That's really sad about the differences in play style meaning the girls are squeezed out. Great insight tho, thank you. And ugh about women having to manage male behaviour. FFS!!
Thanks @SonEtLumiere. So annoying about the differences in PE.
@Sillydoggy that's so striking that the erasure of women in learning is so ingrained. Imagine it's even worse for minorities. Bloody hell. And we think we're progressive!

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Sillydoggy · 30/04/2020 12:22

We changed from mixed to single sex at 8. By then had been told ‘ girls can’t do that’ a lot by little boys particularly with regards to sport. Boys were also taking up much of the teacher’s time with bad behaviour. Girls were already being pushed into stereotypes by their boy and girl peers.
Single sex school removed a lot of those issues. Never told they can’t do anything, in fact the opposite. Good tech activities for girls, good sport. Also girls split into different groupings not just girl/boy so stereotypes are broken down. Girls are free to like Star Wars or fashion, art or sport without being told it is a boy or girl thing.

On the down side I still see issues with curriculum and the materials they use. The history, religion, English and social studies curriculum very much still focuses on men although the teachers do their best to bring in some female examples they are often not mainstream. Issues of sexism are not routinely addressed and sometimes not accepted or understood by teachers. We discuss the male headline acts in movements but not women’s role in those movements. As soon as we simplify a topic the women are filtered out.

A family friend was writing materials for school use - potted histories- and she pointed out that all the people she had been asked to write about were men. She asked if she could put some women in instead and they agreed but if she hadn’t spoken up nothing would be done.

Because of this bias in school teaching both boys and girls think that only men did anything in the past rather than understanding the bias.

SonEtLumiere · 30/04/2020 11:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OhGodWhatTheHellNow · 30/04/2020 11:22

As a midday supervisor I echo the points regarding the boys dominating the playground - no amount of appeals to reason is able to shake their already ingrained notion of entitlement to more space, leaving the girls to fit in around the edges. I try not to reward bad behaviour and ban their games on a regular basis for being downright hazardous to the littlies, but am saddened that I have to take this hardline approach, that in primary they don't accept boys enjoyment of football is not more valuable than the girls playing corners.
As an adult learner, also, I still saw female students being expected to babysit males, on an accountancy course no less.

Z0rr0 · 30/04/2020 10:31

Thanks @RumbaswithPumbaas that's interesting and an angle I hadn't thought of, but the pressure on shoes for girls is mad. Both mine wondered if theirs would be acceptable with the other girls. [eyeroll] Another reason to hate Lelli Kelli. (Is that still a thing?)
@FemaleAndLearning Thanks for the tip, I'll have a look. And yes, annoying that the sexist beliefs start so young.
@DurtySarf Ooh, great tip. Thanks so much. And yes, definitely all these things need to be tackled across the whole school. If girls suffer harassment, boys are part of the solution.
@Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons Yes, that's part of the research I have. Absence between the sexes is the same age 5-10, from 10 the rates start to rise and is higher in boys until 12 and from 13 it is consistently higher in girls. The median age to start a period is 12.9 years. Girls regularly miss school because of having their periods. It's unclear whether it's because of feeling too unwell or if there are issues at school which make them feel less confident about menstruating there. But good idea about a safeguarding / truancy person.

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Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 29/04/2020 23:09

I wonder if speaking to truant officers might be useful to you? A truant officer friend tells me they have girls skipping school during their periods due to mixed sex toilets.

DurtySarf · 29/04/2020 22:03

The Institute of Physics has done a lot of work on why more girls don't do physics, and what interventions can change this.

Most successful one was tackling gender stereotyping at a whole school level, with everyone on board from the headteacher down.

Check out the education section of the IoP website

FemaleAndLearning · 29/04/2020 21:32

PE curtain to divide classroom into single sex changing area not available until year 5, most girls are ready for it in year 4.

My girl used to dilute boys down in class and to be an assistant to her less able boy partner! She used to get really fed up with this.

My girl being told by boys she couldn't be a pilot when she was older as she was a girl.

Mixed sex after school football in reception, the boys wouldn't pass to the two girls there so my daughter left due to exclusion.

Take a look at Safe School Alliance resources as they have factsheets on sexism in secondary schools and mixed sex toilets among other things.
safeschoolsallianceuk.net/resources-2/factsheets/

RumbaswithPumbaas · 29/04/2020 21:22

I’ve got one relatively minor one... shoes

Boys shoes, tough, warm, suitable for exercising

Girls, Mary Jane styles predominating, thin soles etc.

Now before anyone says that there are lines of girls shoes which are more robust (even if they do exist for less than £60) the girls will often lean towards the prettier ones (and after having a very ‘practical’ dad who always insisted on hideous bully-magnet coats and shoes in my school days - think army surplus stores - I don’t force anything on her)

The issue I had with the school was getting the ks1 children to run their “daily mile” in school shoes which I’m sure contributed to my daughter periodically suffering with severs disease (growing pains where Achilles grows quickly and pulls on the growth plate in the heel) we also wore through shoes quicker than she grew out of them.

It was a bit of a battle with the school to allow them to change into trainers for their daily mile running. Boys, no probs, school shoes good to go.

Are girls being taught even at this young age that the styling of their uniform over-rides practicality/comfort? Would allowing the wearing of trainers for any outdoor activity/playtime help level the playing field as if were?

Z0rr0 · 29/04/2020 20:03

Good point @PlanDeRaccordement. Thank you.

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PlanDeRaccordement · 29/04/2020 20:00

I’d say lack of female role models in education. History, science all are missing key female historical figures and scientists. It is mostly focused on men.

For example- big focus on Henry VIII and his six wives....but then practically skipping over Elizabeth I and her religious reforms, defeat of Spanish Armada, rebuilding the country’s finances, the arts that flourished (she was a patron of Shakespeare), etc.

Z0rr0 · 29/04/2020 20:00

Ooh, thanks @OverZoomed. Invisible Women is on my list but I haven't got round to it yet. Will totally check it out. And yes re: Sport. Girls seem to be (understandably) very angry about those PE exclusions. And yes re: differences in behaviour being treated like that by teachers and TAs.
Thanks @Aesopfable. Tell me more about the PSE books?

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Aesopfable · 29/04/2020 19:48

My daughter was used to manage disruptive boys. Those boys also got (unfairly in my daughters eyes) rewarded whilst better behaved children were overlooked.

Can we also mention new PSE including books and ideas that reinforce sex stereotypes from an early age?

OverZoomed · 29/04/2020 19:36

OP The sandwiching I can (just) understand, in terms of it making sense for class management. Its the complete exclusion of girls from most of the playground (where football is played), the hugely different standards expected of them by TAs (and some teachers) and the (seemingly unnoticed) formation of an in-group of boys in most year-groups who exclude girls and boys who are different, that I think are really damaging.

I assume you’ve read Invisible Women on the design of playgrounds? If not, you really should.

Z0rr0 · 29/04/2020 19:33

Thanks @SarahTancredi. Great examples. Really appreciate it.

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Z0rr0 · 29/04/2020 19:29

Thanks @Coyoacan. It will be tricky and because I've already been upfront about my GC position there's a good chance they'll go with someone else, but we'll see.
On the plus side they are clear that it will be evidence-based so it will be considering genuine research and numbers and views from those in education settings, not just popular rhetoric.
The movement does feel very regressive, surprisingly presented as being very progressive, so it appeals to young people who don't yet have the benefits of knowledge of feminist history.

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Z0rr0 · 29/04/2020 19:23

Thank you so much @OverZoomed for those insights. I've seen a lot of similar examples but I especially like your point about girls being used to manage disruptive boys. I've seen that but it's not been flagged up in this context so that's really helpful.
That sort of institutional sexism which is common but often overlooked where boys behaviour is excused at the expense of girls is so true and exactly what I need to be flagging for change.
Thank you, I'm really grateful.

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SarahTancredi · 29/04/2020 19:17

And can I throw white shirts in there too.

Nightmare for being able to see bras through. Any girl large of chest will struggle to not look swamped in a school shirt big enough to fit.

When I went to school both on.primary and secondary , girls were not allowed to wear trousers.

SarahTancredi · 29/04/2020 19:12

As a parent have noticed

Girls sat between boys to manage behaviour- primary and secondary

Girls and boys not split soon enough for changing. Girls in particular feeling really uncomfortable and have to take themselves off to go get changed elsewhere-primary

Boys allowed to dominate pe lessons. Girls whether get left out or again have to go off unupervised to go play something amongst themselves.- primary

Different behavioural expectations. Alot of "boys will he boys"- primary and secondary.

Coyoacan · 29/04/2020 18:58

I don't envy you, Z0rr0, having to pussy-foot around the most sexist movement ever since women were sent back the kitchen after the second world war.

I was born in the 1950s and suffer quite a bit of institutional sexism at school (to access to the school gym for girls; certainly no playing football at school; compulsory domestic science in secondary school, etc.)

My daughter was born in the 1980s and girls had so much freedom then that I felt sorry for the boys, who were still being governed by sexism and would not participate in anything where girls were the majority.

However this transgender movement is so sexist it makes the 1950s sound like the height of feminist utopia.

OverZoomed · 29/04/2020 18:53

So many things at primary school level:

  • splitting bits v girls for PE (lazy way of splitting them up and a good way to stop girls from enjoying PE)
  • girls told to stop using the monkey bars unless they go inside and put on PE shorts, then told they’re not allowed inside in breaktime and should have put on shorts beforehand (so no monkey bar play)
  • higher tolerance of boisterous behaviour by boys (pushing in to lines, not following the rules in PE, but a load of ‘boys will be boys’, they’re naturally competitive, testosterone surge crap)
  • girls sandwiched around the badly behaved boys in class to try and manage them
  • girls football doesn’t exist, boys football is supervised by the TA as otherwise they fight. No more skipping or other supervised play opportunities as the TA who used to run them is instead supervising football. Talk about rewarding bad behaviour...
  • main group of boys long term exclude any boy who is different (disability, race, not sporty) with no apparent consequence

This is all what I have observed over two DC in a naice state primary which says all the right things. A school which did the opposite of all of this would be getting it right.

Z0rr0 · 29/04/2020 18:49

Oh right @Coyoacan. Yes it does. Thanks. Need to tread carefully as the work is in the Third Sector which is not traditionally GC though I feel very deeply that girls need more access to information regarding how they might be affected by proposed changes. They are traditionally more embracing of difference than boys and are accepting of sex and gender differences into their community but I don't think many are given the tools to consider the implications it could have.

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Coyoacan · 29/04/2020 18:49

It's not the only case, <a class="break-all" href="//www.mumsnet.comsafeschoolsallianceuk.net/2020/02/05/occjudicialreview/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.mumsnet.comsafeschoolsallianceuk.net/2020/02/05/occjudicialreview/

Z0rr0 · 29/04/2020 18:43

Thanks @PinkPlantCase. That's a bit shit about the PE. Will check out that link. Cheers.
Thanks @Coyoacan, will have a look.

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