Men pushing in in queues and not social distancing.

Who is "we" though? Your brand of feminism is not the only one

Seriously Hooves it would be useful if you would read for understanding rather than skim read for point of reaction.

Bewilderness commented : "My attitude is best expressed by Dworkin
"Feminism is a political practice of fighting male supremacy on behalf of women as a class,
including all the women you don’t like, including all the women you don’t want to be around,
including all the women who used to be your best friends whom you don’t want anything to do with any more.
It doesn’t matter who the individual women are."

You misread and/or misinterpreted this.

Tinsel responded to you clearly
"Hooves, fighting for women as a class does not mean the same as agreeing with all women.

We are fighting for the rights of all women, even those who don't think their rights are under threat, even those we might find objectionable- that is the meaning of the Dworkin quote.

It should be clear who the 'we' refers to in Tinsel's post.

Who is "we" though? Your brand of feminism is not the only one, nor necessarily the right one. So, i, as a woman, don't have to agree with the way that you choose to represent feminism. Disagreeing with you does not make me a man, nor anti feminist.

When the wonderful new upsurgent (is that a word?) feminist movement in this country succeeds in securing those women's rights which have been under threat for the last few years, (and it finally looks like we will succeed, thank the Goddess) we will ask for a codicil to be added at the end of every law saying "Not Hooves though, she's not bothered.

It's also strange how the op has been supported in starting a thread complaining about half a dozen men behaving poorly and yet you agree that women have been doing it too. So, what's the point in the thread? People have been behaving badly during the pandemic for a variety of reasons, is the true situation.

They each could also be vulnerable, oblivious, ill-mannered, frightened, unthinking &/or other reasons informing such unnaceptable behaviours towards people working in frontline services (which has in recent weeks due to CV 19 come to include people working in supermarkets, pharmacies etc).

And equally, so could the men be who have been villified on this thread. Strange that you didn't care to defend them in this way though.

so don't try and claim that it has only been men that have acted like utter arseholes

Who has claimed this?
Of course some women can behave in 'arsehole' ways Hooves

They each could also be vulnerable, oblivious, ill-mannered, frightened, unthinking &/or other reasons informing such unnaceptable behaviours towards people working in frontline services (which has in recent weeks due to CV 19 come to include people working in supermarkets, pharmacies etc).

Or they could be arseholes, some people are, as demonstrated repeatedly by behaviour patterns towards those they feel entitled to treat poorly.

We are fighting for the rights of all women, even those who don't think their rights are under threat, even those we might find objectionable- that is the meaning of the Dworkin quote.

Who is "we" though? Your brand of feminism is not the only one, nor necessarily the right one. So, i, as a woman, don't have to agree with the way that you choose to represent feminism. Disagreeing with you does not make me a man, nor anti feminist.

Dworkin:
"Feminism is a political practice of fighting male supremacy on behalf of women as a class" (so for all women)

Dworkin:
"Feminism is a political practice of fighting male supremacy on behalf of women as a class,
including all the women you don’t like, including all the women you don’t want to be around,
including all the women who used to be your best friends whom you don’t want anything to do with any more.
It doesn’t matter who the individual women are."

Really Bewilderness? Because that is the very opposite of the treatment that I receive on here.

Seriously Hooves, you need to read more carefully.
(Its not all about you)

Hooves, fighting for women as a class does not mean the same as agreeing with all women.

We are fighting for the rights of all women, even those who don't think their rights are under threat, even those we might find objectionable- that is the meaning of the Dworkin quote.

Fighting for women as a class also doesn't preclude us from having a duty to call out actions by other women make that damage women as a class.

Old bloke yesterday just stood in one of the 2 metre gaps in the line for the til. I tried to tell him twice but he 'didn't understand'. Arse

So he was old and therefore vulnerable - why didn't people let him go to the front of the queue? Certainly some arses in the queue, don't think it was the elderly man though.

So, some men are being bastards in the current extraordinary situations,

As are some women. I had the misfortune to be working in a supermarket before I was shielded. Fuck me, the abuse that I got from customers was appalling, and the majority were women. Swearing at me for limiting the number of things they were buying, throwing items at me when I explained they couldn't buy more than they were allowed, abusive language aimed at me and other customers, so don't try and claim that it has only been men that have acted like utter arseholes in this because it hasn't. If you are going to support gross generalisations then expect to be called out.

Yep. Old bloke yesterday just stood in one of the 2 metre gaps in the line for the til. I tried to tell him twice but he 'didn't understand'. Arse

John Prine has died.

Pretty sure rules 12 and 17 came out of conversations I had with Bewilderness (preens). Meanwhile, Goose still doesn't understand what "class analysis" means, a bloke has shown up to tell us that he can't be bothered to read what we've said and shouldn't be expected to, and I'm genuinely confused as to why Dido would think Bewilderness's rules were meant to be a summary of her views (Dido's rather than Bewilderness's).

This thread is trippy. Needs more bread recipes.

So, some men are being bastards in the current extraordinary situations, but we mustn't say so, because we're women.

Well, anyone who says that can fuck right off to the far side of fuck, and then fuck off some more.

As HelenaDove said a few posts ago:
"They were acting entitled and selfish. It wasnt insensitivity. You are minimizing."

Yes.

But getting angry about some insensitive men in supermarket queues, and then using that to generalise about all men, and then turning that into a form of feminine virtue. No thanks

I missed this bit earlier, I guess.

It is now and always has been injustice that I respond to with anger, not "some insensitive men in supermarket queues".
You appear to be suffering from an extreme case of willful misunderstanding.

Oi tinsel stahp.

Your attitude is exactly what gives feminism and self declared feminists a bad name.. Justhadathought You argument is a familiar one to the women here because it is so often made by MRAs and fMRAs. That is why I dismissed you as a fool.

My attitude is best expressed by Dworkin:
"Feminism is a political practice of fighting male supremacy on behalf of women as a class,
including all the women you don’t like, including all the women you don’t want to be around,
including all the women who used to be your best friends whom you don’t want anything to do with any more.
It doesn’t matter who the individual women are."

Datun Yes I thought it excellent & its very much needed. IMO a lot of the focus on Labour is wasted energy. As Caroline Ffiske makes clear, the responsibility & power is rested more with the Conservatives & they must start protecting & re-establishing Safeguarding & women's rights.

Apologies for not including the current thread where it was shared by NameChange2PostThis :
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3873580-Caroline-Ffiske-good-summary-of-institutional-capture-for-the-uninitiated

R0wantrees

That's such a comprehensive article. It includes almost everything. And is very well written.

That was Dido's "Why?* if that wasn't clear

That is a good article. Thank you.

Well no, Tinsel. You keep cocking up the formatting for a start.