Mermaids is encouraging children to hide online searches from their parents

I'd likely have gone where i thought people were going to listen to me and take me seriously.

Take what seriously? That being trans is just an identity, like being gay? That you are born in the wrong body? And that unless people validate that unquestioningly, they are abusive?

Or that gender dysphoria is a symptom of something else.

I know two trans identifying teenagers ( now young adults ) and I’m sure they also told their college pride society that they had been abused at home. That’s categorically not true, but it’s part of the rhetoric*

My friend's daughter identifies as trans. She said the teens in the online support groups egg each other on to tell the most distressing stories about unsupportive parents. Her daughter was looked down on because her parents were too supportive. Thankfully it pushed the girl away from the groups not away from her parents but the narrative that parents of 'trans' kids are all awful, unsupportive and abusive is not true and is actively promoted by these vulture like charities.

statsgeek1
The reason that actual experts in child development / psychology / education (like a number of us on here) have had to remain anonymous is because lobby groups have used tactics of threats and intimidation to silence anything other than uncritical agreement with their demands. Which is why the harmful 'treatment' of children has expanded without the ethical controls that all other branches of medicine are subject to.

It's only because so many of us have started to push back with numerous courageous individuals being open and risking their careers that finally the evident abuses are being exposed. See Professor Michael Biggs' exposure of the Tavistock's experiments with puberty blockers:
www.transgendertrend.com/tavistock-experiment-puberty-blockers-update/

Personally, I think that self declared experts from both sides of this debate often get far too easy a ride when expressing their opinions often without question in the MSM.

Child Safeguarding principles & frameworks should apply to all children.

Professionals' panel at Manchester 'Dentransition' event:
(extract)
"[Dr Hannah] Ryan introduced the panel by referencing “the fraught field that exists in regards to evidence and the use of evidence,” in terms of how youth are diagnosed with gender dysphoria and subsequently treated. She stressed that “gold standards” of research practices were not being implemented on existing and past transgender patients. Bell added that even far lower and basic standards are not being met, such as follow-up procedures to check in with transitioned individuals over time.

Hutchinson revealed that GIDS and gender clinicians across the UK rely on data that is no longer relevant to the type of patients they see now. In the past, 75 per cent of dysphoric patients were male, however, these numbers have since reversed and tipped the scales to 80 per cent female. Referrals have additionally rocketed by 4,500 per cent to 5,000 per cent in the last decade, and now encompass younger children than before. The NHS is also contending with an influx of patients with new identities, such as “non-binary.”

As if that’s not enough, children are arriving into the care of gender clinics having already socially transitioned with the help of schools and parents, a process that usually involves adopting new pronouns and superficial gender stereotypes generally attached to the opposite sex (e.g. clothing, hairstyles, etc.). Yet there are conflicting views around whether this approach is a positive method of support or if it is ethical to allow vulnerable patients to socially transition without professional advice. Hutchinson referenced a paper by Dr. Ken Zucker that found social transition can decrease the likelihood that an individual will “desist” (go back to living as their actual biological sex) further down the line.

The medical establishment appears blind to the long-term impacts puberty blockers may have on children, which Bell says are often prescribed without warning parents or caregivers about the lack of research and experimental way in which these drugs are being used. Referencing research from her Dutch sources, Hutchinson said almost 100 per cent of children on puberty blockers progress to taking cross-sex hormones, while, in the past, before puberty blockers were introduced to kids, around 80 per cent of children would decide against pursuing transition.

“We are literally in the void of discovery here,” O’Malley said.

Bell even finds the terminology “puberty blockers” to be “targeted,” as it sugar-coats what he describes as “potent drugs” that are inevitably accompanied by additional consequential effects.

“The body isn’t like a video recorder that you can just put on pause,” he said.

Medical professionals feel stifled in their ability to to talk about these issues. O’Malley’s documentary, which aired in November 2018, was pivotal in exposing this reality, as therapists and a handful of other medical professionals voiced their concerns anonymously to escape being labelled “transphobic.”

Ryan expressed empathy towards her fellow researchers. She said they are battling “immense pressure” to alleviate the suffering of patients struggling with dysphoria and affirm patients’ gender identity without question or intervention. Hutchinson, who worked in GIDS for five years, noted that clinicians can be accused of transphobia for merely “talking about evidence.”

“But how can it be transphobic to ask for better standards of care for this client group? I want better standards of care for kids with gender dysphoria,” she said, to loud applause.

Another former GIDS employee in the audience claimed that medical experts face both external and internal pressures. Most feel prohibited from talking about the possibility of desistence and detransition entirely. Bell agreed: manoeuvrability to investigate and conduct research on desistence seems almost impossible when the trans movement “has penetrated into clinical services,” and cannot be questioned, challenged, or exposed. Bell said the extent to which gender ideology has “the ears of politicians right up the highest level” as well as control over much of the media was remarkable. “It has sort of gone through unquestioned,” he said. O’Malley considered that this has only served the best interests of “non-experts” with a lot of social media followers, essentially allowing them to “lead the room” and act with impunity." (continues)
www.feministcurrent.com/2020/01/09/detransitioners-are-living-proof-the-practices-surrounding-trans-kids-need-be-questioned/

'While I understand your point statsgeek1 , it's a major problem that so many adults just assume that they can overlay their own experiences / understanding of childhood on every other child. Groups like Stonewall and Mermaids have been able to self identify as "experts" when they are evidently not. They have a niche interest with limited experience of child and adolescent development but have been allowed to influence the treatment of children everywhere.

This has resulted in the Tavistock moulding their treatment of children to satisfy the demands of adult lobbyists'

My understanding can only relate to the children who are in a similar position to that which I found myself in. Even then my understanding is only my own. My personal opinion is that Mermaids provide a valuable service to that particular subset of children and their families. Any adult thinking their particular experience whether it be as trans supportive or gender critical should be pushed or forced on any child as best practice is mistaken and possibly worse.

Personally, I think that self declared experts from both sides of this debate often get far too easy a ride when expressing their opinions often without question in the MSM.

Groups framing parents as potentially hostile to children and encouraging adults to encourage children to keep secrets from parents - in clear contravention of Working Together which is specific about professionals working in partnership with parents and only the courts being able to remove parental rights.

What has happened is unforgivable and it's enraging to hear adults claiming that because this is how they felt it must be applied to every other child. It's not just enraging but it's dangerous and the casualties are vulnerable children.

This ^^

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/779401/Working_Together_to_Safeguard-Children.pdf

While I understand your point statsgeek1 , it's a major problem that so many adults just assume that they can overlay their own experiences / understanding of childhood on every other child. Groups like Stonewall and Mermaids have been able to self identify as "experts" when they are evidently not. They have a niche interest with limited experience of child and adolescent development but have been allowed to influence the treatment of children everywhere.

This has resulted in the Tavistock moulding their treatment of children to satisfy the demands of adult lobbyists. The mental health professions being bullied into refusing children with complex mental health issues the space to explore their co morbidities because it's now seen as 'conversion therapy'. Professions with decades of experience in working with children with complex issues being coerced into treating any child deciding they're 'trans' as being 'competent' to make life changing decisions, no matter their age or vulnerability. Groups framing parents as potentially hostile to children and encouraging adults to encourage children to keep secrets from parents - in clear contravention of Working Together which is specific about professionals working in partnership with parents and only the courts being able to remove parental rights.

What has happened is unforgivable and it's enraging to hear adults claiming that because this is how they felt it must be applied to every other child. It's not just enraging but it's dangerous and the casualties are vulnerable children.

I can see you are not a fan of Mermaids. I have an opposing opinion in that I think they offer a valuable support group to children and their families at a very difficult time. That doesn't appear to be a unusual opinion I hold.

The links provided question Mermaids ethical/Safeguarding failures come from medical professionals, Family Court judge & young women harmed by trans ideology/ medical affirmation interventions.

Mermaids is providing/informing 'training' to schools, NHS & social care.

December 2018 Janice Turner for The Times:

Trans ideologists are spreading cod science
Those who defend controversial charity’s right to a £500,000 lottery grant should really listen to what it is preaching

(extract)
Are you a Princess Barbie jelly-baby who likes frilly dresses, high heels and takes ages to get ready? Or a GI Joe jelly-baby who wears boots and functional clothing? Did you know that your preference for pink sparkles or muddy sports isn’t down to societal expectations of boys and girls. No, it’s written in your chromosomes. And that’s science.

Well, science according to Mermaids, the charity for trans children, in a presentation understood to be given to thousands of teachers, health workers, police and politicians, and part-funded by the Department for Education.

I listened to a recording of this bizarre 90-minute training lecture and wish others could too. Particularly those who pride themselves on rationality and evidence-based thinking: atheists, fans of Richard Dawkins and Ben Goldacre’s Bad Science; those incensed by climate change deniers on TV or creationists in schools; the same people who are tweeting #istandwithmermaids because the Big Lottery Fund is reviewing, in the light of an outcry, its decision to award them a £500,000 grant.

On tape the Mermaids trainer tells us that humans don’t come in two sexes, male and female, sperm and ovum: “Most people still think that way,” she says airily. “But what we know now, thanks to advances in science, is that the human race has up to 42 different sets of chromosomes.”

Biological sex is on a spectrum, she says, like skin tone and (seriously) bra size. A person’s “gender identity jelly baby” has nothing to do with how we are raised: it is inside you at birth. You know you are a man because you walk like a man and like “manly” things. A listener questions why this lecture is based upon stereotypes and is told “you’re going too clever”.(continues)
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-ideologists-are-spreading-cod-science-m8n0pdbq3

transcript of the training by mumsnet collective available here:

docs.google.com/document/d/1NDOMlo2aEpBl2ySfKdEWCb1H94tZciKiqUffjH1ku0Y/edit?usp=sharing

docs.google.com/document/d/1aeFV0T6j4PXvm1xZBS_50oSJYV-_gO8YMoFjKjNA_9Y/edit?usp=sharing

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3454658-recording-of-mermaids-training

… 'Just what the hell are surgeons doing?” (continues)
www.feministcurrent.com/2020/01/09/detransitioners-are-living-proof-the-practices-surrounding-trans-kids-need-be-questioned/'

Practices always need to be questioned that is how progress is made. The voices of de-transitioners are hugely important in the development of assessment. Personally, I am just not overly comfortable with the idea that those practices that in the main have a positive outcome need to be stopped or legislated against based on those experiences. Doing nothing for the minute few (incidence wise) is not a neutral action.

Childline's resources about 'transgender identity' are informed by transactivists.

I can see you are not a fan of Mermaids. I have an opposing opinion in that I think they offer a valuable support group to children and their families at a very difficult time. That doesn't appear to be a unusual opinion I hold.

Personally. I'm confident that as a frightened 14 year old lacking parental support, had I been able to make a choice between them and a group who actively promoted stickers to minimise the distress of children in a similar position, I'd likely have gone where i thought people were going to listen to me and take me seriously.

I understand that we are unlikely to agree. It's healthy in a democratic society.

Surely the safeguarding response to a child being abused at home is to encourage them to phone Childline or confide in an adult they trust?

www.childline.org.uk/info-advice/your-feelings/sexual-identity/transgender-identity/

Some excellent posts on this thread highlighting why certain lobby groups are so dangerous to children because of their lack of understanding of safeguarding and their insistence on alienating children from their parents and families.
Thank you all for exposing this so clearly.

As I said, I can only think that her particular experience of having a trans child and seeing them develop into a happy young woman getting on with life drives her opinions and actions.

That she would want the minute number (incidence wise) of children that find themselves in a similar position to have the opportunity at the same level of happiness does not surprise me. I think to want people to be happy in themselves is quite a common human emotion.

January 2020 Liv Bridges for Feminist Current:

'Detransitioners are living proof the practices surrounding ‘trans kids’ need be questioned
Detransitioners are living proof that the practices surrounding “trans youth” need be questioned, yet their experiences are too often ignored.'
(extract)
Then came the enthralling and emotional damning indictment of doctors’ negligence: the detransition panel.

It is worth noting the bravery that young women — all between the ages of 19 and 29 — exhibited as they recalled their most intimate surgeries and brutal insecurities. Later, on Twitter, Evans disclosed that, of the seven women on the panel, there were five mastectomies, two hysterectomies, two oophorectomies (the removal of ovaries), and 20 years of testosterone combined.

So, why have so many young women been compelled to undergo such brutal surgeries?

One detransitioner, who goes by the name “Satan Herself” on Twitter, said that transitioning was a way to evade lesbophobia and her “reality as a homosexual woman.” Living as a “transman” for five years, she had never even considered the possibility she harboured internalized homophobia, as she was so supportive of LGBT rights. Yet she knew no lesbians and was starved of representation of masculine women. She said she couldn’t envision growing up into an adult lesbian woman, and immersed herself in transgender theory, which seemed the ideal way to “fix herself.”

Another detransitioner, Ellie, said that, at 15 years old, she too couldn’t picture herself as a homosexual adult female, so began her lengthy four-year transition journey one year later, with a mastectomy.

Thomasin began identifying between “male and various non-binary identities” at 14 years old, only desisting from treatment in May. She said social media and the online world functioned as a kind of escape route, especially since she saw no lesbian positivity or representation online or in real life.

Nele, who identified as trans for two years, argued that people aren’t just “born transgender for a magical reason,” but that it is “put on you by society.” She claimed that the contemporary trans movement masquerades as progressive while “reinforcing gender stereotypes” — a position shared by Bell, who said accepting the concept of gender identity without criticism can legitimize “a form of caricatured gender stereotypes.” Bell feels the outcome of trans ideology is a “movement that actually acts against the support of lesbian and gay people.”

Many also explained that they had pre-existing body issues, some manifesting in life-threatening eating disorders, alongside gender dysphoria.

Despite almost dying from anorexia, “Satan Herself” said she never linked hating her female body to her eating disorder or gender dysphoria. She never connected the dots between her fear of living as a female and her fear of living at a normal weight, both of which caused her to be dismissive of her health.

“I often wonder how nobody realized that? No therapist I saw; no doctor I talked to about getting surgery; no one in my personal life,” she said to a tear-choked room. “I just wish someone would have been there to tell me not to get castrated at 21…

… Just what the hell are surgeons doing?” (continues)
www.feministcurrent.com/2020/01/09/detransitioners-are-living-proof-the-practices-surrounding-trans-kids-need-be-questioned/

As I said, I can only think that her particular experience of having a trans child and seeing them develop into a happy young woman getting on with life drives her opinions and actions.

That she would want the minute number (incidence wise) of children that find themselves in a similar position to have the opportunity at the same level of happiness does not surprise me. I think to want people to be happy in themselves is quite a common human emotion.

2016 Juian Vigo for Feminist Current:

'When lobby groups like Mermaids dictate policy and discourse around gender identity, kids lose'
(extract)
"Justice Hayden writes that J’s mother caused “significant emotional harm” to her child and critiques the local authority social services staff responsible for the youngster’s welfare.

He goes on to detail the acts of a controlling mother towards her child, M’s personal diagnosis of J’s alleged gender dysphoria, and a system which failed this child. Together, these various failures demonstrate a pattern of abuse and a mother who, Hayden writes, “deprived [her son] of his fundamental right to exercise his autonomy in its most basic way.”

What the judgment shows is that reports made by the Local Authority’s Housing Department, J’s school, the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC), and Social Services gave M’s behaviour towards her child (including her approach to J’s “gender presentation”) a pass simply because she was receiving support from Mermaids, a UK-based charity that claims to support parents of children who identify as transgender. Observations like these show major conflicts of interest between Mermaids and the government agencies named in the judgement.

Susie Green, the CEO of Mermaids, began her trajectory into the transgender debate through personal investment. She took matters into her own hands regarding her son’s gender dysphoria, leaving the country for the USA, then Thailand, when the National Health Service (NHS) would not undertake the treatment she thought her child needed. Mermaids is entirely comprised of parents like Green, who have either a child who self-identifies as having gender dysphoria or have started seeking professional help for their child. Despite the fact that Mermaids is not a professional organization, it has managed to push its way into government policies such as the House of Commons Select Committee “Transgender Equality” report (within which Mermaids is referenced twenty times) and has successfully convinced local school systems and councils that its form of “support” is tantamount to professional ethos.

In short, we have governmental policies being decided via a support group that functions as a political lobby — a political lobby which justifies its authority because of government championing. (The NHS, for example, cites Mermaids as “a charity that helps children with gender identity issues and their families.”) More surreal is the fact that some of the Mermaids members regularly give lectures to nursing students and NHS staff. The fact that medical and legal documents are produced by basically taking the word of desperate, if not confused, parents equates to both a shocking oversight and the tail wagging the dog.

Make no mistake, Mermaids is not a body of psychologists or trained healthcare professionals — it is merely a group of parents who have a child they believe to be transgender. Unlike other professional organizations, Mermaids is just a support group and therefore not accountable to medical and psychological bodies or government institutions. Under the leadership of Green, Mermaids harbours vested interests in dictating political discourse around transgender identity." (continues)

www.feministcurrent.com/2016/10/26/lobby-groups-like-mermaids-dictate-policy-discourse-around-gender-identity-kids-lose/

'That is why this website button is not the same as those on other specific abuse focused websites - because it is being used to manipulate a child into believing abuse is occuring when it is not, and is grooming the child into secrecy.'

Personally, if I believed that someone was genuinely grooming children I would report it to the police. I know they are very busy, especially at the moment but, I am quite sure if there was merit in the report they would look into it.

This is cuckoo behaviour from Mermaids, as is part of the extreme genderist method on a wider scale.

Childline and a number of other websites set up specifically to assist victims of abuse have these emergency exit routes, and I think they serve a useful purpose in that limited sphere.

What Mermaids are doing here is the Genderist practice of magpieing aspects of other things they seem useful to the Genderist cause - you see it often in the piggybacking on stories about homophobia, despite the massive amount of overt homophobia with the trans movement.

Mermaids has here decided to play on the fears of children who believe themselves to be alone in their bodily or psychological discomfort, by telling these children that anything other than total acceptance of the narrative of Trans is abuse. And if your parents are abusers, the reasoning goes, you need to have an escape button because who knows what abusers might do if they see what you have been looking at.

The key here is that Mermaids have defined abuse to include things that aren't even remotely abuse, related specifically to the product they are pushing - Gender Identity. It's part of the system that parents must either unquestioningly support the movement, or they must be cast as the enemy.

That is why this website button is not the same as those on other specific abuse focused websites - because it is being used to manipulate a child into believing abuse is occuring when it is not, and is grooming the child into secrecy.

'But do feel free to start that thread in AIBU if you think it’s necessary.'

Having seen that they are following a similar process to Child line, I am not of mind to think that would be necessary either. I am glad we agree.

'Susie Green is CEO of an influential lobby group.'

As I said, I can only think that her particular experience of having a trans child and seeing them develop into a happy young woman getting on with life drives her opinions and actions.

That she would want the minute number (incidence wise) of children that find themselves in a similar position to have the opportunity at the same level of happiness does not surprise me. I think to want people to be happy in themselves is quite a common human emotion. Of course, not all agree.

The feminist site is the third most popular board on MN, statsgeek, and an extremely well used source of support for parents of trans Identifying children, so I think it’s in exactly the right place. But do feel free to start that thread in AIBU if you think it’s necessary.

I can only imagine her experience of having had a trans child who turned into a happy adult drives her opinions

Susie Green is CEO of an influential lobby group.

James Kirkup Spectator:
'Why are some MPs trying to shut down the transgender debate?'
1 May 2018

(extract)
[Polly Carmichael said] ...
To do that we need to be able to talk and discuss these issues. All too often stakeholders become lobby groups.”

She did not name any stakeholder. But her words might be relevant to a charity called Mermaids. Mermaids is a charity that describes itself as “a support group for children and young people with gender dysphoria and their families”. Its CEO, Susie Green describes herself as “parent to a daughter who was born male.” Mermaids is a relatively small charity (it had income of £127,000 in the year to March 2017) with a big reach. It has prominent backers and its advice and recommendations have been absorbed and adopted by many public bodies.

Some people in the gender debate say harsh and critical things about Mermaids. I am not doing so here. My suggestion is that Green, having had her own family experience of transgender issues, has decided to devote herself to charitable work in the hope of offering what she believes as help to others who need it. The same is true of several others who work or volunteer at Mermaids. Read this for a moving account of how devoted some parents are to Mermaids for their help.

Despite its influence, it is worth noting what Mermaids is not. It is not a research body. Its activities are support (for families) and advocacy: based on its contacts with those families, it argues for what it sees are better policies and practices by the NHS and others. It does not carry out or commission clinical or academic research. Its most recent annual report lists among its charitable activities “campaigning and advocacy” and says: “Mermaids has also become more active in lobbying”.

There is regular dialogue between Mermaids and the GIDS, but the two sides do not always agree. An example is on the time the GIDS team take to give referred children the hormone-blocking drugs that stop their bodies developing the physical characteristics associated with their birth sex.

In evidence to another Commons inquiry in 2015, Mermaids argued that GIDS should make such drugs available much more quickly. The GIDS team has generally resisted that call, more than once saying that “any decision around hormone treatment needs time and considered thought.”

And in evidence to that earlier committee, Dr Bernadette Wren of the GIDS said this:

“I know that Susie and Mermaids would like a fast track so that young people who are already well into puberty and feel that they know that they want to move forward into physical intervention would bypass our assessment process and move straight into physical intervention. We feel that is not an ethical way to practise.”

Here’s another summary. A transgender charity that says it is engaged in lobbying lobbied politicians and doctors to change the way children are treated by doctors. The doctors declined to make that change because it would be not be ethical to do so." (continues)

www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate-

Judicial review about GIDS 'experimental' treatment of children:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3804872-Keira-Bell

Mycat, as I understand it, statsgeek is what you and I would understand to be a transsexual - a gay man who has transitioned to adopt the gender expressions/roles culturally encoded to the female sex.

I completely disagree with their position on the thread, but more broadly, their explanation and willingness to be honest about their sexuality is something I respect.

And also anecdotal, with the exception of one, all the trans individuals i met at my uni pride society had faced verbal or physical abuse from their parents when coming out, and many were kicked out of home

I know two trans identifying * teenagers ( now young adults ) and I’m sure they also told their college pride society that they had been abused at home. That’s categorically not true, but it’s part of the rhetoric.

If anything, they were the perpetrators of abuse towards their family, especially their mothers and younger siblings. In one case their was significant police involvement to keep others safe.

Unless, of course, by “abused” you mean “ anything apart from unquestioning acceptance of a whole new religious ideology and belief system “.

In both families there was a huge amount of inappropriate behaviour from the trans identifying* young adults that has seriously damaged their siblings . One is now completely estranged from their siblings because of abuse that they have never taken any responsibility for. That person is now abusing lesbians and trying to get them thrown out of university because they won’t sleep with them.

• please note this is the term they use so I repeat their wishes

'Forgive me for being dense, but given that you said you are “trans and same sex attracted” and your clarification is ” Of course, I'm a trans woman (male) I am sexually attracted to men. Does that help?”

I honestly don’t know if you were born male but now present as female and are attracted to men, or if you were born female, now present as male and are attracted to men.

I can read it both ways! I think because people use the same words to mean different things it gets really confusing.'

You're not dense at all. I was more than happy to clear up any uncertainty resulting from ambiguity. The beauty and sometimes lack of clarity of language often results in freedom of speech so, ambiguity can be positive too.

They are actively telling random children to keep secrets from their parents.

Even those of us without any safeguarding experience absolutely know you should never do that.

Those of us with transactivist experience could give anyone a list of people who actively seek to get children to contact them secretly. Bergdorf inviting children to contact them off-piste, McKinnon and their glitter family, that twit last week on Twitter saying they'd spend an hour a day secretly talking to children, etc.