Half of all male prisoners in Scotland who identify as women have been transferred to women's jails

I don't think they've actually answered the first question, have they? The question asks how many transmen are held in the male estate. They answer that there is 1 transman held in Scottish prisons, but do not specify whether they are in a male or female prison... without clarification, I'd be surprised if they are in the male estate?

It is possible this could be linked to issues with potentially identifying people who hold a GRC.
Hypothetically if a female with a GRC was held in male prison estate it could not be in the general accommodation.
There have always been facilities to enable a female to be housed in male estate though this was for very high risk prisoners that female estate could not accomodate.

Blackberry gin - Do you know if your friends daughter is expected to carry out body searches on transwomen?

It is also missing all logos, signatory, contact address.

Is this genuine? The reply contains so many spelling and grammatical errors and weird capitalisation it doesn't look like something produced by a civil servant.

I don't think they've actually answered the first question, have they? The question asks how many transmen are held in the male estate. They answer that there is 1 transman held in Scottish prisons, but do not specify whether they are in a male or female prison... without clarification, I'd be surprised if they are in the male estate?

Can't every male prisoner now claim discrimination on the basis of sex if they don't get transferred? Without a GRC those transwomen are still legally male.

A friend's daughter is a prison officer who has worked in both the male and female estates.

She told me that after word got around that men could access women's prisons, even if just for a short trip out, the numbers claiming to be a woman rocketed. The chance to have a break from the usual routine and ideally a minimum few weeks' 'holiday' with a chance to see lots of women / ideally get to see some naked / possibly get laid or at least a quick grope, is well worth pursuing. There are no down-sides to this plan for the men concerned.

She told me that it was ridiculously obvious that the men were opportunists and not one had claimed to be transgender, previously.

That is a very very interesting question whatkaty (although the idiot SPS would probably say it proves they don’t transfer the ones that aren’t “really” trans )

That's a good question WhatKaty. Or for that matter, were they put in female prisons for a period and then decided they "were actually men after all" once they'd been in with the women for a while?

(I've wondered this with regards to schools too - what happens if one of the boys who the girls have been forced to accept in their changing rooms etc as "one of them" decides they're actually still a boy really? Or wants to desist but then feels he can't for that reason?).

Did the three males who dis-identified as trans do so after a negative risk assessment for transfer to the female estate? I think that figure needs following up.

STILLTish article, Spetember 2019:

'Ministry of Justice: Updated Policy on caring for Transgender Prisoners.'

(extract)
"The policy exposes how far the, legally protected, characteristic of sex has been eroded, by allowing anyone, regardless of biology, to declare they are a woman. The prison system is illustrative of just how far Gender Identity ideology is embedded within our legislature and enshrined in public policy.

Below is a quote 👇 from James Morton, of the Scottish Trans Alliance, which shows that Female prisoners are the subjects of a dangerous laboratory experiment. James is listed as an author of the Scottish Prisons Policy which deals with Transgender Prisoners. As James is a lobbyist for Trans Rights there is only one group at the forefront of the policy. Spoiler. Its not Women.

‘We strategized – we strategized – that by working intensively with the Scottish Prison Service to support them to include trans women as women on a self-declaration basis within very challenging circumstances, we would be able to ensure that all other public services should be able to do likewise’.

The above quote is illustrative of a complete disregard for the female prison population; one of the most vulnerable groups in our society. Domestic violence refuges, rape crisis centres and female prisons do seem to figure prominently in the targeted locations. Captive females are being targeted for this new branch of Men’s rights activism." (continues)
gendercriticalwoman.wordpress.com/2019/09/19/ministry-of-justice-new-policy-on-caring-for-transgender-prisoners/

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3829786-James-Morton-scottish-trans-alliance-quote

Surely there has to be a legal case here. If they do not have a GRC, they have no grounds for being placed in facilities for the opposite sex. It's ridiculous that the Scottish Prison Service has enabled this!!

Have I understood this?

The FOI only has records for those prisoners who have engaged with the gender service.

There are 14 current prisoners in Scottish Prisons who have done so:

1 is identified as a trans man (& seems to be held in male estate)
10 are identified as trans women (5 in male estate, 5 in female estate)
3 men started the 'gender transition' process, were identified as trans women during that time & have now stopped/desisted/detransitioned
_
14

Of the 14 prisoners who have "engaged with the gender reassignment process", one holds a GRC which grants legal entitlements to be treated as if the opposite sex (in most cases)

At least 13 of these prisoners do not have a GRC

QuimReaper cross posted!

Isnt it most likely that the prisoner who is identified as a transman has the known GRC?

Prison service will have to be managing the high risk to a female prisoner if they are in male prison estate.

Would the prison service be able to count/declare then number of (if any) male prisoners with GRCs in female prison estate?

Would Scottish prison have canvassed female prisoners in women's prison to establish if they identify as trans men?

I'd bet my left arm the one prisoner holding the GRC is the transman. Why else would they be put in the male prison?

Rhona Hotchiss former prison governor of Cornton Vale, says that in her experience it is "always an issue to have trans women in with female prisoners”

"My experience is, that it is always an issue to have trans women in with female prisoners, I think you have to think beyond the obvious things like physical or sexual threat, which are sometimes an issue, to the very fact of the presence of a male bodied person in amongst vulnerable women causes them distress and consternation."

interviews:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-scotland-51452489/ex-prison-chief-expresses-concern-about-trans-women-in-female-jails

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p082x063

Talk from the recent For Women Scotland meeting in Edinburgh:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpfTBEXqGQM

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3823351-Ex-prison-chief-expresses-concern-about-trans-women-in-female-jails

The only thing that will catch their attention is a few juicy lawsuits.

June 30th 2019 Sunday Times
'Feminists celebrate U‑turn on self‑identification in Scotland as women’s prisons review trans policy
Women’s rights activists hope the victory will trigger a rethink in England and Wales'
(extract)
"The Sunday Times has learnt that Scotland’s prison service, which already has a de facto self-identification policy, is to review it after a whistleblower said the tiny number of trans prisoners in Scotland’s female jails had been responsible for a “quite horrific” number of incidents towards women inmates, including threats of rape."
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/feminists-celebrate-u-turn-on-self-identification-in-scotland-as-women-s-prisons-review-trans-policy-gr3vtzwj9

So I assume someone is going to take this to the European court of human rights? Or is this how this state of affairs came about (the rights of the prisoners to ID as a woman)?

Oh hang on I misunderstood your question. Ignore me :)

Gibbons I read it as the 3 are not in the prison associated with the gender reassignment so they are in the prison associated with their sex.

Yeah jade.

It’s a fucking head fuck that the prison service just bow down to a convicted criminal and say yeah.

You go wherever you want

Women get no say in this just men