What do you think about the rainbow flag?

I'm so sick of the rainbow flag too. It's rammed down everyone's throats, prioritised above everything else (disability awareness, ageism, sexism, racism) and nobody feels they can say anything or they'll be labelled 'homophobic'. It's tyranny. I'm also sick of how Pride month became Pride season, now it's all bloody year. My local Sainsbury's had rainbows every bloody where for 'Pride month'. Ended up being about five months. Put me off going there.

Most lesbians have been on a journey to come out as gay and reject men as partners. It's not an easy thing to do

Nope. And it's made infinitely harder when women are being bullied into accepting that they are not in an exclusive category defined by biological sex, but must obediently admit any male who claims to be a woman for whatever motivation. Your obdurate refusal to acknowledge this point is laughable.

Sappho, I was not saying that.

The rainbow flag clearly = gay pride to you.

That's fine. But you can't enforce how I interpret it.

I have never been on a pride march. I hope though that the same-sex attracted people I know would confirm that I have demonstrated my support by, well, doing nothing special or different. I had understood that acceptance was the goal.

I don't disagree that homophobia still exists. And that there is still work to be done by organisations who represent LGB interests.

However I am entitled to my view that enforced or encouraged rainbow lanyards on Southwest trains, or Barclays turning their app rainbow is meaningless virtue signalling. As I see it, visibly Muslim or orthodox women travelling on their own would be as entitled to fear for their safety when travelling alone late on a Friday night as a lesbian woman.

But then you would probably argue that as a white heterosexual woman, any views I hold are automatically arrogant as I have not walked the walk. Obviously because it is for you to decide what I think, and if I don't agree, it is fine for you to minimise and insult.

No wonder people are starting to see the rainbow symbol as oppressive.

Cwenthryth my real life experience as a lesbian and a woman is I am being thrown under a bus by straight women who claim to care about gay rights.

And no I don't believe anyone would ever be disciplined and sacked for choosing to leave a female toilet at work and there is no evidence that this has ever happened. Ever.

So did you vocalise your right to be same sex attracted at Brighton Pride? Did you hold a sign saying “I have the right to be same sex attracted” at Brighton Pride?

I don't go to Brighton Pride with an anti-trans agenda. I go to proudly hold the hand of my DW and celebrate that we live in a time when two women can legally marry. For me it's a day of celebration.

Most lesbians have been on a journey to come out as gay and reject men as partners. It's not an easy thing to do and most have been told 'it's just a phase' or 'wait until you find the right man'. No lesbians I know feel threatened by nonsense TRA claims that same sex attraction is transphobic. It's just another part of the journey.

Placards and protests just give it oxygen, much better to ignore and concentrate on our happy same sex relationships.

I am assuming you are straight as you have a DH
Nice biphobia you have there!

I avoid corporates who rainbow-up these days. It was suggested that we rainbow our website and I asked for the business case.

I suggested we raise money for other causes and it was rejected - but I still organise food bank collections at work and a donation to an industry mental health charity. Next week we are doing a ‘bring and share lunch’ on Friday to raise money for a soup kitchen charity.

Aloud, sheesh.

There are 2 things a rainbow flag says to me:

1. Corporate virtue-signalling bollocks
2. Misogyny. "No TERFs on our turf," bullying lesbians, demonising middle aged and older women, baseball bats and intimidation.

Back in the early 2000s, I thought it was so positive.

Erm well this is exactly what happens at Brighton Pride. I proudly march for my right to be same sex attracted and nobody has ever accused me of being transphobic. Perhaps if I held up a transphobic placard they might do, but I don't

So did you vocalise your right to be same sex attracted at Brighton Pride? Did you hold a sign saying “I have the right to be same sex attracted” at Brighton Pride? I suspect not. What do you think would have happened if you did?

What would you call a “transphobic” placard?

This was Brighton Pride’s response to lesbians marching to assert their right to be same sex attracted:

www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/07/10/brighton-pride-transgender-protesters-hijack/amp/

So do you think you could say your right allowed without fear?

SapphosRock what if a middle class, white, heterosexual male wore lanyards for racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, islamophobia and non-binary phobia? Would the six lanyards around his neck shield him and others from the offensive privilege emanating from his middle class, white, heterosexual male presence?
Would he be a better ally than someone like myself - a middle class, Asian, bisexual female - who doesn't wear any lanyards?

Cwenthryth - oh, there are some women tagging along (not often leading the charge).

As a lesbian and ex member of Stonewall I can confirm that I now see Stonewall and the rainbow flag as representing misogynists and anti women and our rights. I find it hard to believe that this is where we are now - that they have actively campaigned to remove women's rights but they did - so I withdrew my support.

There has never been a demand to have one before - where were there when there were anti gay laws? Where’s the woman’s rights ones or disability ally ones?

Wow, Sapphos, you’ve been denying women’s experiences this entire thread, but actually accusing Isabelle lying about what has happened to her in her workplace? Wtf, where do you get off with that? Really nasty.

Btw - I think everyone agrees that lesbians and bisexual women are being thrown under the bus - who’s doing the throwing though? It’s sure as hell not women defending same-sex attraction.

@NonnyMouse1337 if there were lanyards for anti racism / sexism then I would absolutely wear them. I am all for minority groups being allies to one another.

Why should the rainbow be replaced by these and why is one more important than the other?

Anyone who isn't a middle class, white, heterosexual male is likely to face discrimination on the workplace

Some of us have actual hate and discrimination to deal with.

True. I think my experiences might override yours in the oppression Olympics. I propose we replace rainbow lanyards with ones for racism and sexism. Sound good?

@Needmoresleep I am assuming you are straight as you have a DH so it is incredibly arrogant of you to assert to me, a lesbian, that the rainbow flag which represents me and my community is 'pointless and meaningless'.

I am sure it is pointless and meaningless to you because you've never experienced homophobia in your life

For SapphosRock
Here's the thread from last year where a horrified civil servant discovered in a training session that the right to leave a toilet if there is a transwoman in there is forbidden to biological women. Presumably cementing our role as props and validators for transitioning men.

isabellerosingol speaks the truth - inconveniently for those who believe that abuse of women like this doesn't happen.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3520371-civil-service-trans-policy-what-can-i-do

If the rainbow flag = gay pride why couldn’t lesbians march asserting their right to same-sex attraction without being accused of being transphobic? Why couldn’t they march at Gay Pride, and the trans rights activists with the trans flag march on another day?

Erm well this is exactly what happens at Brighton Pride. I proudly march for my right to be same sex attracted and nobody has ever accused me of being transphobic. Perhaps if I held up a transphobic placard they might do, but I don't.

There is an entirely different trans pride.

Sappho, it does not work like that. Other people cannot enforce how others interpret things.

In Asia swastikas are perfectly friendly, often beautiful, symbols of an eternal faith.

At a Spanish fiestas flags with the cross of St George refer to historic battles with the Moors.

And rainbows used to promise a pot of gold in the distance.

It would be a reasonable guess that the pleasant middle aged Southwest trains ticket inspector (who was very patient when I had to rummage through my bag to find my ticket) was told, or at least encouraged, to wear her rainbow lanyard. She almost certainly would not have given a stuff if my two-together rail pass had included a woman rather than DH. Equally I had no interest whatsoever in her sexual preferences. Or indeed whether she had XY chromosomes.

So no I did not see the rainbow lanyard = gay pride. Instead I saw it as pointless and meaningless, suggesting both coercion and a misguided corporate desire to achieve woke points (perhaps to divert attention from a weak service delivery.)

It reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where Kramer refuses to wear the aids ribbon on an aids walk because they told him that he ‘must wear it’. He ends up getting yelled at by eyeryone (who can’t say why he must, but he must) and gets beaten up.

We thought it was comedy...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3301033-Get-the-L-Out-Statement-by-the-lesbian-protesters-at-Pride-London

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3630064-Press-photographers-banned-from-pride-because-of-last-year-s-Get-The-L-Out-protest

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3299646-Lesbians-protest-at-London-Pride-getthelout

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3443042-The-misogyny-continues-in-Manchesters-Gay-Village

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3674135-Manchester-pride-usual-8-plus-3-extra?msg_id=89587269#89587269

You usually see the trans first with the rainbow (not always vice versa). The rainbow is becoming the LGBTetc flag - so many new groups being added, not all to do with sexuality. It’s not what it was is it? Stonewalls umbrella is so large it must cover most people these days - that just means nothing.

It’s all commercial nonsense - and the ‘inclusive’ assemblies at school - so do they invite in a gay female firefighter or male nurse? No - a drag queen (as in Paisley last week), or in my sons case a trans woman telling them how difficult it is for women in business.

NotBad exactly. The existence of lesbians peacefully talking about wanting to preserve women-only spaces or even just talking about their own same-sex attraction AT FUCKING PRIDE! (in London) was seen as a threat and an outrage.

That is when the hierarchy in the Pride movement needs to take a long hard look at itself and what it’s now become but no, they doubled down. It’s unbelievable and gives me the absolute rage.

If the rainbow flag = gay pride why couldn’t lesbians march asserting their right to same-sex attraction without being accused of being transphobic? Why couldn’t they march at Gay Pride, and the trans rights activists with the trans flag march on another day?