House of Lords- Women Spaces Hurrah

20:16:13
Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne (Conservative) raises the important issue of NHS guidelines for single sex accommodation which have misrepresented the Equality Act 2010.

See important thread:
OP Barracker wrote Tue 16-Oct-18
We've been lied to about 'Single SEX' wards since 2010.

medium.com/@anneharperwright/sex-gender-the-nhs-1e8f4e6363a6

They were ALWAYS based upon 'gender'.
The evidence is in NHS documents from 2010.
And the Department of Health were told, by the NHS team, not to tell people wards were segregated by sex, because they knew the policy was based on gender.

But the DOH purposefully used the word sex to the public instead.

We've been deliberately misled."
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3396859-Weve-been-lied-to-about-Single-SEX-wards-since-2010

Sal Brinton quoted the non-binary hair cut poem?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3826223-The-struggles-of-getting-a-haircut-as-a-non-binary-person

Well done Dame TGT - always loved her and now even more so!

I had it in my head she was fully twaw, so I was all "here we go..." when it was her turn. Pleasantly surprised.

What do people think of this below from Lord Blencathra?

How will ”some big, hulking male brute”, as he puts it, be so transformed over a 2 year period that a woman would feel totally comfortable sharing bathrooms or changing rooms with them?

As a man—even one in a wheelchair—I cannot imagine the fear and lack of safe space that women can face when they go to the loo and some big, hulking male brute comes in demanding to use the facilities because he has decided that he wants to identify as a woman that day. I entirely respect his right to adopt a woman’s sexual identity, but not until he has satisfied the 2004 Act and fully transitioned over the two-year period.

Thanks Errol- I saw the contactholmember for both of them and assumed it was a placeholder- didn’t realise it would work.

Well done Dame TGT - always loved her and now even more so!

Buzz - thanks for posting the tv link.

I will send the extracts of some of the speeches to my MP for them to comment. There was some political gunning at Stonewall and the cowardice and culpability of the prison service.

Sal Britton certainly has done her homework on female paedophiles - shame she hasn’t invested similar time and energy on the risks to women and girls

Thread with a link to the pink news twitter if anyone wants to enjoy the ratio'ing without derailing this thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3832804-The-bloody-misogyny-of-Pink-News

You can watch it here too (scroll down to 19.50 on the right hand listing and click on that and it will jump to that part): parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/526547c7-83e7-45dd-ba41-eff60db15858

After Sal Brinton speaks, look how stony faced she sits when others have their turn. By god she openly loathes women, doesn't she?

I just came across the Pink News report on this which I can only describe as 'bizarre' and lacking understanding of many women's concerns.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/02/25/lord-lucas-tory-peer-gender-neutral-bathrooms-house-lords-debate-periods/

*Doobigetta
*
This page lets you find contact details

https://www.parliament.uk/business/lords/whos-in-the-house-of-lords/get-in-touch-with-members/

If they don't have an email listed then :

Alternatively, address your email to a specific member and send to:
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Bulk emails to members are not accepted. If more than six copies of the same email are received, all will be deleted.

HTH

Sal Brinton has a long history of merrily chucking women under the bus to please men. She is the big hitter enabling Sarah Brown and the other awful TRA in the LibDems.

I’ve written to Lord Lucas and Baroness Grey-Thompson to thank them. I’d like to do the same for Lord Blencathra and Baroness Nicholson but they don’t seem to publish email addresses.

The point about Tanni G-T, needing to leave the door open in a womens loo............It is shocking that women have to get into the specifics of their own situation (catheters and periods), in order to try and convince the woke that they really don't want or deserve a male walking in whilst they are doing this. However that male identifies. Let alone the trans abled who are now going to be getting off on this anyway.............

Thankyou Tanni for saying this. I'm so angry that you have had to describe this in such detail, in order to try and convince people of what women need and deserve in order to participate in public life.

Isn't it incredible (and a bit sad) how pleased we are to hear a logical and sensible discussion about women's rights to privacy and single sex toilets allowed to happen.
Although it was depressing to see hear Brinton getting so excited about female paedophiles. They think it's a real gotcha don't they? Didn't work for Jo Swinson but she's evidently going to keep using it.

Exactly Beyond and as Baroness Tanni G-T so clearly pointed out, when disabled women have to use the ladies, it is usually necessary to leave the cubicle door open due to lack of access for wheelchairs, so access to single sex toilets is particularly important for disabled women.

Baroness Grey-Thompson (CB)
(extract)
"Let me be very clear that the vast majority of people will not use access to women’s spaces to get close to women and girls in an unhealthy way. But I have been involved in elite sport for the last 40 years, and we have seen that a small number of horrible individuals will use their position to get close to children, women and boys. That is why we need to have protections in place. There is a reason that the UN, WaterAid and other organisations have called for single-sex spaces. Social convention is there to safeguard women and girls to prevent harm. Eroding social convention will make it harder to maintain these boundaries.

Sadly, we live in a world of upskirting, secret filming of women and girls in toilets, and rape videos posted online and made available for purchase or subscription. Maybe we know more about abuse these days, but we have hundreds of years of history of this. Much as I want it to go away, we are not at that point yet. Historically, there are not enough spaces for women’s toilets whether in sports venues, theatres or public buildings. I grew up in a world where there were no accessible toilets. As a young child, visiting the Tower of London at seven years old, I asked someone where the nearest accessible toilet was; I was told Paddington —brilliant.

We talk about the urinary leash: women not being able to leave their homes because of the risk of not being able find toilets. As a disabled person, I face that problem every single day. When an accessible toilet is not being used as a storeroom, there is a last-moment celebration. Every train I get on and every new building I go to, I have to think about whether there is an accessible toilet. " (continues)

Do read the full speech by Tanni Grey-Thompson, its very important.
Thank you

Well, disabled women are still women, aren't we. Discussing our needs in the toilet debate isn't a "distraction"?!

And remember it is quite common to hear (even here on mn where people are generally more aware of disability issues that the rest of the population) "if you don't feel safe in the men's, use the disabled toilet instead"...

My heart soared when I read the opening speech! (especially the bit about the kimono and the baseball bat...)

Sal Brinton is the one who said at the Fawcett Society event that she would be absolutely happy with a parliament made up of 50% men, 50% transwomen isn't she?

Lord Lucas (Con)
(extract)

"There should be a genuine and open discussion about who should be allowed in the Ladies and similar women’s facilities and under what circumstances, and that discussion should take place without insults. The first requirement for that is that the Government should step up. The Government have a responsibility to hold the ring in these discussions. They have vacated the ring and allowed it to become a space for warring interest groups, and that has been extremely destructive. Also, the principal interest groups—those with the strongest and longest reputations—need to commit themselves to discussion. Stonewall should put away its kimono and baseball bat and settle down to the idea that maybe it needs to modify its rather extreme views. The Fawcett Society should listen to its founder and the quote that is on the statue in Parliament Square,

“Courage calls to courage everywhere”,

and get involved in the discussion in a serious way.

At the moment, we have a serious firefight, but the people who are getting hurt are not the combatants, they are the transgender and other vulnerable people who are on the sidelines. It is our responsibility as a Government and as a society to settle these things in a civilised way and to produce a civilised outcome. I do think that there is the potential for that. If we settle down to do it, we shall be successful.

There are many aspects of the relationships between women and trans women, and men and trans men, that need sorting out. We need to sort out who is allowed to compete in sport, who is allowed in which kind of spaces and what kind of services people are allowed to request from someone of the natal gender they require. I do not see why women should be required to provide intimate services, such as a search, to someone not of their own sex. I do not see why women should have to be examined by someone who is genetically male if they would prefer someone genetically female. These are difficult questions, I think they need sorting out, and I urge the Government to get a grip."

The demand that government/s 'get a grip' is now a matter of Hansard record.
I hope that all MPs & MSPs are reminded of this.

Hurrah indeed & thanks Ralph Palmer (Lord Lucas)

Rather annoying that it got derailed to discuss disabled toilets instead.

That's an important issue, and if the intent is to shape the provision of 'changing and toilet facilities in public buildings' as per the title, it's a vital component of the mix.

Good stuff apart from the shameful LD contribution.

Will read it properly tonight but the opening speech cuts right through the crap, doesn't it?

There are people who have the ear of the LibDems who seem to have an undue degree of influence, especially with reference to the so-called 'spousal veto', which LibDem peers seem to be desperate to remove.

There is also the total of £1.4m in donations from a pharmaceutical company who produce puberty blockers.

The LibDems appear very murky indeed but I'm sure it must all be above board, mustn't it?

Violetparis, yes - what fabulously encouraging comments on that Twitter thread! Surely they can’t continue to ignore such overwhelming numbers of women enraged by her signing the trans pledge and her wholesale trashing of women’s rights?

I was reading this on twitter. Bloody god show (mostly).

Okay, wanted to double-check before I write to her personally and tell her how shameful her comments are, and also to a friend who is high-up in the local Lib Dems and has reasons to be interested in this debate.