Lisa Nandy says child rapists should be in women’s prisons if they identify as female

Not Waitrose? That's a fail on the MN stereotypes, that is.

well, I wouldn't want someone like Katie Dolatowski in my loo. Although that was Morrison’s, presumably Sainsbury’s can see into souls better? Ffs

Lamahaha

Yes I too do a "spot the Mumsnetter" on the Times comments.

See you over there!

Loos in Sainsbury's 🙄What a really pathetic attempt at a derailing squirrel.

This may be a controversial statement, but do you suppose that some of the increasing number of male-born prisoners identifying as female in order to get moved into womens prisons, is it possible some of them might be fibbing?

In the words of Norman Stanley Fletcher, "There's a strong criminal element in here, Mr McKay."

My opinion is that female spaces are for females, that female rights are for females and that female crime statistics are for recording crimes committed by females. The logical end point of stating otherwise is a child rapist in a women's prison and the crime recorded as a women's crime.

What languishing said Robin

This is what the rapist that Lisa Nandy wants moved to a women's prison was up to a few months ago

www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/17384498.worcester-transgender-woman-previously-convicted-of-rape-breaches-order/

This is absolutely the wrong moment for attempts at emotional manipulation.

Or diversion. There are many posts on loos where MNers have made their positions clear. This is a different topic altogether,

Is it being suggested that because of the especially challenging issues arising from the need to appropriately house less than 100 trans-identifying prisoners, I and the 12,000 to 20,000 trans women (still only 1 in 3,000 or less) living in and contributing to society should be prevented from using the female lavatories at my place of work or in Sainsbury’s

Time moves on, and situations change......'mission creep' by radical transgenderism has brought this upon itself - as well as causing women to wake up.

The discussion is about Nandy openly advocating for male born rapists and paedophiles self identifying as women being given unqualified access to women in prison.

Robin - yes that is my view. You can blame the self-ID lobby for that. Most of us were OK with the situation as it was a decade ago, but now it is clear that transactivism demands the complete capitulation of female people to male people's demands, and that the safety of female prisoners is of no consideration when compared with a rapist's declared identity, then I'm afraid I'm no longer prepared to be accommodating. Trans activists have made it clear that your access to the Sainsbury's toilets and a rapist's access to incarcerated women are bound up in the same principles of trans rights and acceptance.

There are, of course, plenty of transwomen who warned that this would be the outcome for them and have spoken out against the insane demands of extremist transactivism. But it's not them who are being listened to.

This is absolutely the wrong moment for attempts at emotional manipulation.

Sorry should read - potential harm - and to protect her dignity and privacy.

I think the key is in the word 'female'.

In my view, if you are biologically male then you have no place in any female spaces including toilets at Sainsbury's . I should be able to allow my 8 year old daughter to use such facilities without concern that a biological male over the age of puberty is there. If those facilities are expected to be used by biological males then I am not prepared for her to go alone. That goes for toilets in other places such as our local sports complex. I don't care what you wear, or your name, or if you think you can be mistaken for a woman. My job is to protect my daughter from harm.

Is it being suggested that because of the especially challenging issues arising from the need to appropriately house less than 100 trans-identifying prisoners, I and the 12,000 to 20,000 trans women (still only 1 in 3,000 or less) living in and contributing to society should be prevented from using the female lavatories at my place of work or in Sainsbury’s?

Not because of that, same reason as that. Women and girls' comfort and safety.

Is your right to use the lav of your desires more important than female prisoners rights not be raped?
Asking for a friend...

Can I just understand the position being adopted by contributors here?

Is it being suggested that because of the especially challenging issues arising from the need to appropriately house less than 100 trans-identifying prisoners, I and the 12,000 to 20,000 trans women (still only 1 in 3,000 or less) living in and contributing to society should be prevented from using the female lavatories at my place of work or in Sainsbury’s?

18th April2018 OP RosenbergW wrote:

"Self ID and women's prisons
I saw this shared on twitter earlier. What struck me (especially given ongoing discussion here) was how difficult it was for the two speakers to find language to talk about the issue. They have to hedge around and check themselves repeatedly lest someone take offence. It simply is not possible to talk respectfully but openly about anything to do with the impact of trans self ID on women. The fear of drawing down abuse and retribution is so massive our MPs and even hardened journalists don't want to touch the subject, let alone give it proper analysis and reflection. This indicates to me that trans politics is the greatest current threat to women's rights, opportunities and lives.

Please watch this short video. If we think that women out here are fearful of trans males but unable to speak about it, how much worse must it be for women in prison?"
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3225546-Self-ID-and-womens-prisons

(David Davies MP (Conservative) asks the question of Andrea Albutt president of the Prison Governors Association)

What Nandy said is the logical conclusion of saying 'TWAW' and all she has done is expose the terrifying non-sense at the heart of it. If you believe in self ID then this is what you support. It's what Long Bailey supports, what Starmer supports, what the Labour party supports.

All three candidates support this. None of them care about the effect on women.

Remember prison staff too. A male prisoner who wants a laugh or to get some kicks can say he's a woman and insist on all searches, supervision when naked etc are done by a female prison officer. What about them? Do they have to comply?

This has already happened.

www.womenarehuman.com/non-transitioning-male-transgender-inmate-demands-female-prison-guards-perform-strip-search/

Prison officials have made no comment on Scott’s behavior, but command staff to comply with Scott’s demands. Female prison staffers performed one strip-search on Scott before refusing and staging a protest.

[David Davies MP] described being threatened with police action for doing so by a cabinet colleague as well as being investigated by the Standards Committee following reports

May 2018 "Andrew Gilligan 'Latest bullying transgender complaint.. swiftly rejected by parliamentary standards committee'
tweet
"Latest bullying transgender complaint (against David Davies MP over We Need to Talk meeting) has been swiftly rejected by parliamentary standards commissioner"

Link to doc embedded:
www.parliament.uk/documents/pcfs/not-upheld/davidtcdaviesnotupheld.pdf

(extract)
'Letter from the Commissioner to Cllr Zoë O'Connell, 23 May 2018
I wrote to you on 27 March 2018 to say that I was beginning an inquiry into your allegation of a breach of House of Commons rules by Mr David TC Davies MP. I am writing now to let you know the outcome.
I have corresponded with Mr Davies and I have consulted the Serjeant at Arms.
Having considered carefully the evidence I have obtained, I do not uphold the allegation.'

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3263172-Andrew-Gilligan-Latest-bullying-transgender-complaint-swiftly-rejected-by-parliamentary-standards-committee

NB Zoe O'Connell (Stonewall Trans Advisory Group, former LibDem LGBT executive & prominent trans rights activist) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoe_O%27Connell

No ‘taking it back’ is not an option. Spineless.