Doesn't self-ID only benefit non-genuine cases?

Why do you think it is better for a feminine boy or a masculine girl to change their body into a poor approximation of that of the opposite sex rather than accept that such gender non-conforming people exist, and should be allowed to exist?

The reason why I never went to my GP about my feeling that "I ought to be a man" is because I recognised two things from the outset:

• I don't and can't know how it feels to be a man because I have no basis for comparison. What I imagine being a man feels like could be entirely incorrect.
• I'd rather be an intact woman than a "poor approximation" (the phrase I wrote in my journal some twenty years ago was "broken simulacrum", but "poor approximation" works too) of a man.

If I woke up tomorrow as a biological male, I'd be overjoyed: risk of rape and camera voyeurism massively reduced, no more breasts I didn't ask for and don't particularly want, no more sexualisation and harassment, the ability to pee standing without needing a Shewee, being taken seriously at work, able to masturbate without needing a full hour and electromechnical assistance, being able to have sexual agency without widespread social shaming, and never having to worry about pregnancy again. But that's not what the surgery and hormones would give me, is it? And it wouldn't reduce the rape risk and sex-based workplace credibility gap for other women.

Self-id isn't going to help with any of that either. Everyone treating women with dignity and respect would resolve the social aspects.

Remember the 1990s, when Multiple Personality Disorder was renamed as Dissociative Identity Disorder, and all those MPD specialist services closed down — esp. in the US where a great swath of special wards and clinics had been set up?

The reason that happened was that physicians finally realized that the vast majority of MPD cases they were treating were iatrogenically induced.

Some patients are EXTREMELY suggestible. Therapists can and have INDUCED dissociation in patients who otherwise would not have dissociated. The standard of care NOW, if patients dissociate into another identity is NOT TO AFFIRM that identity because that will iatrogenically reify it.

How is the surge in gender identity cases any different from the great surge of MPD cases physicians saw in the 1980s?

The original physician treating “Sybil” later confessed that Sybil’s case was a hoax. Anne Fausto-Sterling has admitted her influential paper describing 5 sexes was something she wrote “tongue-in-cheek” and yet it’s cited everywhere as proof that sex in humans isn’t dimorphic and therefore there are humans that have a “mix” of biological sex.

I’ll tell you how MPD differs from GID: MPD had no drug treatment associated with it, no lifetime need for pharmaceuticals that, while cheap now, won’t necessarily be in the future (take a look at what’s happened with the cost of Epi-pens and insulin for an example. The first taste, from drug pushers, is ALWAYS cheap.)

in fact, the very rare cases of true DID can be well resolved through therapy alone. Why, therefore, have new therapy modalities that have come into practice since the 1970s, the time at which clinicians decided therapy had no effect on gender dysphoria, NEVER been tested? EMDR, cognitive behavioural therapies, trauma-informed modalities that differ from old-fashioned psychoanalysis — NONE of these have been tested with GID.

This is a massive medical scandal in the making, and every clinician that has turned a blind eye to the rush to halt puberty in healthy adolescents and then to sterilise them with cross-sex hormones, to perform invasive irreversible surgeries on health breasts and healthy genitals, is implicated.

So I haven’t got alopecia? Well blow me...

Oh, self-dx would be fun! My dh, for instance, would have been treated for colon cancer which he didn't have, a brain haemorrhage he didn't have and a brain tumour he didn't have - and that's all I can remember off the top of my head. There have been more.

What I can say is that the person's issues seem to be around gender identification which they can tell me themselves and I can refer to people who can help them with the rest.

GEEpEe, you have said that you are not qualified to determine whether this is the case, yet you accept the self-diagnosis of the patient, who might be a deeply troubled individual and probably has no medical training at all, as to the cause of their distress?

Do you accept the self-diagnosis of your patients in all other areas as well? Do you assume they know more about anything that you are not an 'expert' on? In particular do you really think that people suffering mental distress are capable to self-diagnosis?

Keira's story is very interesting. She just wanted to wear trousers and avoid dresses and an overbearing mother with archaic views of gender forced her into traditionally female clothing and when she expressed reluctance, asked her if she was homosexual or trans.

@GEEpEe you seem to be on the point of understanding the feminist argument here.

Of course if children don't fit the gender stereotypes for their sex they should not be prevented from being who they are. A boy who shows some characteristics which are stereotypically defined as 'feminine' or a girl with some 'masculine' traits. But if you are really a medical doctor you know that people can't change sex.

Why do you think it is better for a feminine boy or a masculine girl to change their body into a poor approximation of that of the opposite sex rather than accept that such gender non-conforming people exist, and should be allowed to exist?

If they are truly distressed by their sexed body (rather than society's expectations around how someone of their sex should behave), this should be treated in the same way as any other body dysmorphic condition - with mental health support to attempt to reconcile the person with the body they have.

What you're proposing is illegal and cruel and most importantly, lacks any factual basis.

What I am proposing? Did you tag the wrong person in this post?

Here are some of the things I asked you (and you failed to reply):
you've said that you don't have the expertise to diagnose someone with gender dysphoria, so how would you know that a person who says that they have this condition actually does, and that they are therefore a 'trans person'?

What makes a person who is perfectly happy with their body and/or has interests stereotypical of their own sex and/or presents as someone of their own sex 'trans' in your view?

In the context of a heterosexual woman who presents in a feminine way but self-identifies as a gay man:
Do you not find this denial of reality troubling in any way and feel the need to help her to discover why she is denying reality?

What exactly do you think I am 'proposing' with these questions, and what is "illegal and cruel and most importantly, lacks any factual basis" in what I have said?

If my medical practitioners did affirmation-only treatment with me:

• I'd be on lithium for bipolar that I don't have because I mistook periods of remission for hypomania.
• I'd be sterilised when a coil does the same job.
• I'd have had a risky lumbar diskectomy for something better managed with physiotherapy.

Absolutely, GPs should refer to specialists when a patient's symptoms are beyond their expertise. But neither the GP nor the specialists should not practice an affirmation-only approach, regardless of field.

There's an interesting conversation on another thread about the abuse of NHS staff. Imnobody4 says: "Lots of causes [of lack of respect for NHS staff] but one is the change from a citizen culture to a customer culture. Customer is always right. You're there to provide a service. I pay your wages sense of entitlement."

GEEpEe you don't have to treat your patients like customers and assume that they always right to provide good care, and sometimes you provide the best care by saying "no, try this instead".

I think you've mistaken "what people want" for "what they need".
I imagine he'd be great for drug seekers too.

How can I tell an adult woman whether not being able to conceive is in her best interests?

If she is there, and asking for it, ASSUME IT IS IN HER BEST FUCKING INTERESTS TO STOP BEING ABLE TO GET PREGNANT.

Permanently? When she has no children, is in her early twenties, and has depression that may affect her judgement? When there are many effective contraceptives that you can offer her that allow her not to get pregnant now but still change her mind later?

I think you've mistaken "what people want" for "what they need".

So is Adrian Harrop.

GP & online disruptor?

Yes. I believe this person is a GP. So is Adrian Harrop.

Doctors can be foolish, ignorant and downright nasty little specimens too. They aren’t - even some still seem to have the old mindset - gods.

This converting them into 'men' just as some progress was being made with more and more women are finally getting their autism diagnosis, often after years of suffering with a misdiagnosis, is really the most brutal kind of treatment of gender non-conforming women in our society. I wish more people could see this.

Upfield I think more & more people are seeing & undertanding this.

The harm that has been done to autistic young women & girls by gender clinics & trans rights activists is immense.

Public awareness is growing daily. The inquiries & judicial reviews will be evidence based.

The systemic Safeguarding & Duty of Care failures will be seen regardless of the determination of online disruptors.

Today's Times:
'Gender Recognition Act changes halted after child fears'
Steven Swinford, Deputy Political Editor

(extract)
Ministers are expected to drop plans to make it easier for people to change their gender amid concerns about the impact on children.

The government will formally respond to a public consultation on updating the Gender Recognition Act by the summer. The consultation, which was launched in 2018 by Theresa May, proposed to change the law so that people would be able to officialy transition simply by making a declaration of their gender.

At present they have to receive a medical diagnosis, appear before a specialist panel and wait for two years for legal recognition of their new gender. They also have to pay a £140 fee.

The proposals to change the Gender Recognition Act have met with criticism from some feminist groups, whose members are concerned about the prospect of trans people being able to use single-sex spaces.

Ministers are also concerned about the impact the proposals could have on children, who are being helped to transition while still developing their “decision-making capabilities”. (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d19ad4fe-54d9-11ea-a869-24971f770bf3?shareToken&wgu=270525_54264_15823654300007_a7832d87ab&wgexpiry=1590141429&utm_source=planit&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_content=22278

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3829568-GRC-changes-dropped

But then I'd have to believe that the majority of autistic women who present with these symptoms are referred to gender clinics. They aren't.

Look you're grasping at straws here.

Theres a reason these stories only make it in the Daily Mail.

In the US, they reckon like 1/60 are on the spectrum.

Who they who reckon like?

Is it still half term by the way?

In the US, they reckon like 1/60 are on the spectrum.

Most autistic kids I've met are far less confined to gender based stereotypes but ive never met any who wish to transition. However, I can imagine that having more room to explore as your parents are more accepting of your rejection of societal norms would mean you find that less typical identities are more fitting to you as an individual.

So basically it is likely that the fact autistic kids are less likely to respond to societal norms and their parents are more likely to be accepting of this, they find that an LGBT+ label describes their identity sooner than other people.

For the trans people I've met, puberty has been horrific. And not in the same way puberty can be depressing and horrific for anyone. I've referred many a child for therapy around coping with the normal turmoil of puberty. I've had 2 young women who were absolutely phobic of their periods. I've had young people who hate their bodies. Again, nothing to do with gender. When you have someone in genuine turmoil about their gender identity, it's completely different. They will talk specifically about that.

I think Dr David Bell raised the important question whether transgender medical intervention was iatrogenic at the Manchester 'Make More Noise' event.

'Detransitioners are living proof the practices surrounding ‘trans kids’ need be questioned
Detransitioners are living proof that the practices surrounding “trans youth” need be questioned, yet their experiences are too often ignored.'

(extract)
Bell even finds the terminology “puberty blockers” to be “targeted,” as it sugar-coats what he describes as “potent drugs” that are inevitably accompanied by additional consequential effects.

“The body isn’t like a video recorder that you can just put on pause,” he said.

Medical professionals feel stifled in their ability to to talk about these issues. O’Malley’s documentary, which aired in November 2018, was pivotal in exposing this reality, as therapists and a handful of other medical professionals voiced their concerns anonymously to escape being labelled “transphobic.”

Ryan expressed empathy towards her fellow researchers. She said they are battling “immense pressure” to alleviate the suffering of patients struggling with dysphoria and affirm patients’ gender identity without question or intervention. Hutchinson, who worked in GIDS for five years, noted that clinicians can be accused of transphobia for merely “talking about evidence.”

“But how can it be transphobic to ask for better standards of care for this client group? I want better standards of care for kids with gender dysphoria,” she said, to loud applause.

Another former GIDS employee in the audience claimed that medical experts face both external and internal pressures. Most feel prohibited from talking about the possibility of desistence and detransition entirely. Bell agreed: manoeuvrability to investigate and conduct research on desistence seems almost impossible when the trans movement “has penetrated into clinical services,” and cannot be questioned, challenged, or exposed. Bell said the extent to which gender ideology has “the ears of politicians right up the highest level” as well as control over much of the media was remarkable. “It has sort of gone through unquestioned,” he said. O’Malley considered that this has only served the best interests of “non-experts” with a lot of social media followers, essentially allowing them to “lead the room” and act with impunity." (continues)
www.feministcurrent.com/2020/01/09/detransitioners-are-living-proof-the-practices-surrounding-trans-kids-need-be-questioned/