Menstruators and people who have periods

We are just ignored. Our feelings, our words, all ignored. Just look how many complaints we have made to M&S and nothing has happened. How many times has we seem massive corporations change their words and images from one TRA tweet? Loads.

Same as I wouldn't mind calling a trans man who had a child a pregnant person or a chest feeder. It doesn't stop women being pregnant women and breast feeders.

Wouldn't mind at all if it was just using 'inclusive' language when talking to/about transmen. If transmen would rather what they do is called chest feeding, thats fine. Its when its expected to go for every other woman because inclusive...that it becomes a problem. And yes, this is happening all over, its not a hypothetical..

Why is it only ever women, who get this shit. Theres only a massive controversy about what the word woman means. Much pretending noone knows what a woman is. The word man gets nowhere near the same treatment? Always always women, and anything to do with women, being 'problematic' for whatever fucking reason.

The sacred caste I think lang called it

Sacrificed

Only trans ideology is sacred. The rest of us can be scarified to it.

I dont think anything is sacred at the moment.

As so many precedents have now been set which remove the word woman/girl, the number of organisations & companies following suit will be increasing until there's a significant challenge.

Is nothing sacred? Now Fitbit is getting pressure remove the word women from its menstrual tracking app. FFS.

Guidance such as that from NASUWT & CPS may well prevent/inhibit teachers from feeling able to ensure children in their care attend the appropriate talk for their sex.

www.nasuwt.org.uk/uploads/assets/uploaded/085066bb-c224-40de-b79e2a1358801ee9.pdf

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3809302-CPS-school-hate-crime-guidance-we-must-complain

I am sure the teachers would be able to figure out that boys who identified as girls should still go to the talk about male puberty.

Really? But would that not offend the boys who identify as girls? Would that even be legal? They are girls if they identify as girls, according to your ideology. If a teacher singles the boy who identifies as a girl out to go with the boys who identify as boys, would the teacher not be risking arrest? How is that any different from referring to the boy who identifies as a girl as "him"? Why would a teacher knowingly risk overriding the identity of the boy who identifies as a girl. Identities trumps biology in your ideology, doesn't it?

Reviews into the appropriateness of medical treatment of children, especially girls who have been identified as 'transgender' will extend to the impact of 'social transition' & affirmation they are the opposite sex/gender by trusted adults, organisations & public services.

Times today
'Review ordered into rules on child gender transition'
(extract)
An expert told The Times that the rules, agreed between NHS England and the Tavistock and Portman Trust, which runs Britain’s first gender identity clinic for children in north London, is based on advice that lacks robust evidence and comes from clinicians with close links to transgender groups.

NHS England has ordered an independent review into the use of puberty suppressants and cross-sex hormones. The National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (Nice), which is responsible for clinical practice guidelines in England and Wales, also has been asked to develop guidance for the first time about referring children to gender identity services.

Existing NHS treatment draws heavily on international guidelines that recommend approaches in care for gender dysphoria. An NHS contract with the Tavistock trust issued in 2016 says that it will “conform” or “broadly conform” to standards of care issued by the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) in 2012. These say that they reflect the best available science and “professional consensus”.

However, Gene Feder, professor of primary care at the University of Bristol and an expert in clinical guidelines, said that these fell far below the benchmark for British healthcare guidelines used by Nice and that he would not recommend their use.

WPATH has been accused of conflicts of interest by receiving income linked with its guidelines or of working at universities or clinics that received funds from advocacy groups or drugs companies that favour certain treatments or receive grants and publish research on transgender care." (continues)
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/9fd61a26-4b67-11ea-b112-75acb94b3417?shareToken=54c4ca4370348bd0d159acfd39d65d06&wgu=270525_54264_15813575174612_bc9f11a04e&wgexpiry=1589133517&utm_source=planit&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_content=22278

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3818902-Review-ordered-into-rules-on-child-gender-transition

There's no need to be an arse about it though and go around referring to trans men as women.

Well, you do you. Other people will make up their own mind. You admit that you are coming from the angle that "trans men" exist and you want to respect that. Other people aren't coming from that angle, and believe clarity and truth are more important.

Why do you think it's ok to refer to transgirls as male but not transboys as female?

Sapphos your earlier comments about what to call girls in a school Vs boys if needed to separate girls a sex basis stand for all to see.

You say no one is suggesting that girls be called menstruators yet suggest exactly that in certain circs while saying boys should be referred to as males.

Can you genuinely see no double standards there?

@Justhadathought I don't believe anything of the sort. There's no need to be an arse about it though and go around referring to trans men as women.

Yeah I see your point. I guess I am coming from an angle that trans men do exist

And that is the crux of the issue - and hence the profound disagreements. You believe in trans ideology; you believe that people can change sex; that people can be born in the 'wrong body'......you believe that a man can become a woman based solely on how he feels about himself; you believe that children can be trapped in the wrong sex; you believe all of that........You don't believe that what makes you a woman is the fact of your sex; you believe in gender identities and roles......as being discrete and meaningful things - that exist in people's heads. You believe that personal feelings trump all else......

I don't!

I accept that people struggle with self identity and feelings about themselves and their role in the world - but none of the rest of it.

It will stop people taking notice of the problems that are genuinely affecting women and girls

Like not being afforded the privacy and dignity due to their sex; like not having facilities which cater to their specific needs; like not being able to name their own experience using universally accepted and acknowledged terms; like having to shove up for anyone who wants to claim their space; like having their language controlled; like being told that being a woman is nothing more meaningful than a pretty face; that women are just non-men......and so on....

It's a strange hill to choose to die on when there are plenty of outrageous things happening to women in the world

Because it lies at the root of all of those oppressions. That's why.

Crying outrage about things that really don't matter could cause many to switch off from the other important concerns feminists have

What is it that you don't get about how this issue is the single biggest, most important issue.....the issue which underlines and forms the foundations for all of the other issues?

I'm not sure how old you are, or about how active you've been politically in the past...or how much consciousness raising you've done...? .but let me tell you - this is the most profound and pressing first order issue there is..... If you don't know what a woman is; what being female implies, and how women are treated - around the world - on account of their being girls and women - then I'm not quite sure what you've been up to?

Ever heard of colonisation? That's how it feels.

There are a large number of women & girls who will not recognise that 'menstruator' applies to them.
'Inclusive' language such as this is not accessible language it has the features of 'jargon' which excludes people not in a group rather than includes.

women and others who menstruate

• problem solved. I know some purists won’t like it but could most people live with this?

And it’s nothing like husband/wife v “partner.”

Those are terms people use to describe themselves; they consent to the word.

Whereas “Menstruator” is being forced upon 3.5 billion odd women against their will (except for a few who consent or don’t care).

It matters. Yes, even in deprived areas where we have bigger fish to fry.

Disappear the language we use to describe ourselves and we become invisible.

Yes

Furthermore if we support & do not challenge the disappearing of the language then we collude with significant potentially life-long physical & psychological harm being done to vulnerable girls & women.

No one is dying on a hill . This ridiculously hyperbole must STOP.

We are simply saying we are women and girls.

So call yourself a “menstruator” if you want. But do not label others with these degrading terms because I for one, do not consent.

Yes Rowan

These women tried to make their female bodies disappear. They tried to will their female bodies away by all means available.

Removing the means to describe our bodies and biological functions with regard to femaleness renders all women as less than, as other. As non-men, as nothing.

Disappear the language we use to describe ourselves and we become invisible.